Why "global warming" Gets Me Heated

dabiatchishere wrote:The US is saying they don't want to start off-shore drilling because it will deter the beauty of its coastlines. Considering the rigs are 15 miles off of the coast, it seems hard that any intelligent person would believe this!

Not too unbelievable.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2006/05/tilting_at_windmills_in_the_se.html
This link is to an article about a wind farm off the coast of Massachusetts. its from 2006, so its a bit dated, but still relative.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/04/sd_county_approves_rezoning_for_new_oil_refinery/

And thats a neat little tidbit about the first new oil refinery being built in the U.S. in 30 years.
So even if we could open up all these new oil feilds, we can't turn it into gas.


"America: Where half-assed is good enough!"

Lateralus wrote:

"America: Where half-assed is good enough!"

Now thats a quote to be proud of!

TheHolyStickman wrote:

Lateralus wrote:

"America: Where half-assed is good enough!"

Now thats a quote to be proud of!

and it would make a nice bumper sticker

TheHolyStickman wrote:

Lateralus wrote:

"America: Where half-assed is good enough!"

Now thats a quote to be proud of!

OMG Laterlaus! LMAO!


Add 10 years on top of that 30 years, and perhaps your children may benefit from it, providing the war mongers and politicians haven't blown us all to hell-o by then.

I thought the Kennedy comment was appropriate. Who would know more about 'wind' than him!

PS: While the US like any other country has its drawbacks, it is still one of the greatest countries in the world! Be proud to be an American!

dabiatchishere wrote:

PS: While the US like any other country has its drawbacks, it is still one of the greatest countries in the world! Be proud to be an American!

I agree, I'd love to go there sometime. Maybe pay MSHL a little visit.

Lateralus wrote:
I think for every 5 minutes of real news there's another 55 minutes of crap. Especially with the 24 hour news like CNN, MSNBC and FOX new. You get a sound bite of info on what’s happening in Iraq and then the rest of the hour is about Britney Spears farting in an elevator. The morning network news shows like ABC's Good Morning America, are really bad about that. You get a quick rundown of things that happened in the real world while you were asleep, then half an hour of Diane Sawyer interviewing the cast of Dancing with the Star's because there's going to be a new episode on ABC that night.
And they thrive on misinformation. Remember all those weeks ago when Barack Obama and his wife did that little fist bump after the primary victory? The next day it became a "terrorist fist jab" at Fox news and the rest of the networks followed behind with their panels of experts to debate whether it was or wasn’t a call to jihad or just a low key high-five.
It wasn’t, they knew it wasn’t, but that didn’t stop them. It filled time. It didn’t matter if it was real news or not. They had already sold the commercial time.
And that doesn’t even begin to cover what Glen Beck, Bill O’Reilly and their clones do. I can’t watch those shows without getting peeved at the stupid b/s they spew. Not even to get a cheap laugh at how stupid they are.

I listen to sports radio in the car just to veg out but will sometimes put on air america or cnn radio and although they are often against popular rederick they are also one sided byist.

Angelo, kudos on speaking your mind on this subject, I couldn't agree more! And, as Dab said, it's nice to be around so many like minded people!

SunnyP, I do still get the newspaper, for the obits!! I cannot understand people who accept the news media's views on such important subjects without some healthy skepticism. They are in the business of ratings, not necessarily interested in truth telling.

In the U.S., the three major stations are so slanted, they were even invited to go with Obama on his mid East trip. The cable news channels are not much better, I've found with the possible exception of Fox News. But, I've learned to do my own homework, too. Global Warming has become big business, at least here in America. People are spending fortunes making their homes and businesses 'green'. Who's raking in the dough? Mostly the Home Depots and other businesses who were smart enough to get into the 'going green' business early on.

Who else? The investors! Yes, they are making money, too.

Yes, Angelo, Global Warming is a big business just as the big 'ice age coming' in 1970. I remember that well. If I recall, the East Coast saw one ice storm and one very severe blizzard, 'The Blizzard of '78'. Something, I'll never forget. We were housebound for a week! But, certainly no ice age.

The winters have never been as bad since then, I guess it was a mini ice age!

I, for one, am proud to be am American, but being an American includes my right to question my leaders and what the news puts out as fact.

Thanks for posting this, Angelo. I'm right there in the skeptic's corner with you!!

Hi AC

a very interesting read and of course your statements about the media and their love of bad news is correct. Some of us are old enough to rember the threat of Y2K, the millenium bug.

That said, it is perhaps harder to argue against the effects of a weakened ozone layer when you live in Australia. We have been experiencing a drought, a drought that has no precedent. A drought that just seems to have no end. A drought that has lasted since 2001.

We do not need news people, weathermen or Governments to tell us that there is something wrong. We see it everyday, the dry weather continues and promises of heavy rain fail to materialise.

Everyone in Australia is faced with water restrictions everyday, some communities are having to cope with the most highest level of restricted water usage as the water may run out.

In Melbourne we have been at Stage three water restriction since April 2007.

Which basically means that any water related activity is probably illegal. Eg, putting water on plants in a garden is legal only for two set hours twice a week, and then it is restricted to using a hose with special restricting nozzle or a bucket.

Washing a car is also illegal unless you use a bucket and wash only windows, mirrors and headlights. Even water toys, such as water pistols can not be used at anytime!

The media loves bad news but not when the bad news is really bad. The number of experts who have predicted the ending of the drought over the past years is amazing. They predicted that the rains would come and that there have beens signs that the worst of the drought is over. They make these predictions and from the news reports one would think that the drought was over, and yet the rains refuse to obey the experts and the long dry continues.

In Melbourne our water catchments are at 30% of their capacity. I think that the Australian expeience needs to be considered as evidence that there is something wrong with the weatherdown here.

Also what is alarming is that Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer in the world, with over 380,000 people diagnosed every year. It is important to rember our total population is 21 million. The incidence of skin cancer is scary. No rain, blue skies, more sun, and located close to where scientists say the ozone is depleted.

Whether global warming is real or not, whether it is pollution, nature or some other cause, it is important that this 'industry' does keep researching the area.

Although billions of dollars each year are spent in the 'cancer' industry to find a cure, none has been found. Yet AC, we would not see this as a waste of money. In Australia the finacial and social cost of our current climate is one that cries out for any research that might help explain the situation and one that offers some hope for the future.

Some recent stories:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7499036.stm

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=a399QOLd9KVI&refer=australia

and the following article about the sacrificial lambs, , read it and think about what it is actually saying:

http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/livestock/sheep/lamb-production-hits-record-high/1239240.aspx

Stitch

Great post Stitch and I agree with everything you have written.
I haven't checked out the links yet but I will.

It has to be said though that a large part of our country is desert and that although its the longest drought in recorded history, we don't have a long history for comparisons.

Whether global warming is real or not, whether it is pollution, nature
or some other cause, it is important that this 'industry' does keep
researching the area

Exactly
Its true that the media love to exaggerate, but that doesn't negate the need for and results of research.

Well. . . never expected to kickstart such well-considered comments, and never really expected to find so much agreement.

Seems we are mostly a cynical lot, and that's fine with me!

AngeloComet wrote:Well. . . never expected to kickstart such well-considered comments, and never really expected to find so much agreement.

Seems we are mostly a cynical lot, and that's fine with me!

AC: I thought you did a brilliant job with the post, as did everyone who contributed with their comments!!

I thoroughly enjoyed it, and hope yourself and perhaps others will post their thoughts in future! It was great fun learning about members views, and finding so many like minded intelligent, thoughtful, people!

A big thanks to "Sunny P" for suggesting it, and asking AC to write about it!!!

Don't believe everything you read.
It may be cliché, but it's something I believe strongly. That goes for for the media, that goes for the government, that goes for the so-called experts, and yes, that goes for AngeloComet.

If you want to speak of cynics, I am among the biggest. And because for the last 21 years I have looked at environmental science with that level of cynicism, I feel I have sorted the fact from the hype.

The greatest strength of humanity is its ability to manipulate our environment to suit its needs. Man developed tools, and those tools allowed us to step above our own place in the food chain. Man's dominance didn't stop when we became the top predator, and so we sought to claim complete dominion over the planet. There was nothing we couldn't control. We brought heat to the arctic, water to the desert, and light to the nighttime. Through advances in transportation, we brought every corner of the globe together -- I can bring a letter to UPS now, and it can be in China, Japan, or Australia tomorrow; when I click "post", this message will be in all parts of the globe instantaneously.

There is nothing we can't manipulate on this planet.

And from the earliest moments of our manipulation of this planet, there have been repercussions. We changed the course of rivers to service our towns, and forever changed the landscape of the places down-river. Amsterdam, Venice, Boston, New Orleans, all built where no land naturally occurred. At this early level of our dominion over the Earth we started making permanent environmental impact on this planet.

Even before we began destroying our air we were destroying our land. Hurricane Katrina was so immensely devastating, not because of the strength of her winds, but because of the natural devastation we had already done to the region. That city could not survive such a catastrophe, because that city was already a victim or our environmental negligence. In southern Louisiana's natural state of fresh water swamp, the impact of Katrina would have been negligible.

I don't blame "global warming", but I could. If I could accept that New Orleans should have even been there in the first place -- if I concede to our domination over the earth, and our desire to make residence in parts of the earth that should not support human life -- then I can say confidently that global warming had it's effect on the situation. The causality is fairly straight forward.

The ambient air temperature rises. Polar ice melts. The salinity of the arctic ocean in lowered due to melting fresh water. Ocean current slow. Wind patterns change. And hurricanes become more prevalent and more powerful. Simple science.

What's not as simple is the overall effect of global warming. When it comes down to it, global warming does not just give us warmer temperatures. If it did, skiers would be upset, but overall, life would be OK. Alas, global warming has little to do with summer and winter temperatures.

AC mentioned a 70's scare of an ice age... that, counter-intuitively, actually has everything to do with global warming. In the same way I described the hurricanes, polar ice melt has the capacity to create even bigger winter storms -- so-called super cells -- that could plunge us into an ice age. A reasonable layman's explanation can be found in the recent Hollywood film "The Day After Tomorrow". We could only be so lucky. An ice age would be the effect of hitting the global reset key; and those of us that survived would have a freshly rebooted planet to start over on.

Alas, the other, less drastic effects of global warming would be far more devastating in the long run. A flash catastrophe would be quick, and absolute, and force us to change our way of life. But the slower effects have longer repercussions, and force us to continue to use our flawed technology to fight it off.

Stitch talked about Ozone depletion and drought. It's amazing that on one side of the planet, there isn't enough water, yet on the other, we have to fear the ocean swallowing our coasts. In 20 years, cities could be gone, swallowed up by the oceans; New York, Venice, Amsterdam just under water. Fact vs. sensationalism: the 20 year marker is not significantly proven; any number of factors could speed or slow oceanic encroachment; but beach erosion is proven, obvious, factual, and measurable; the water line is rising.

Now New York under water would not destroy the world. In fact, since the water level rises at such a slow rate, not a single person would likely be killed. But it's population would move crowd other cities, and the massive movement of that large a population would have environmental ramifications we cannot even comprehend.

That's the danger. We know that CFCs are bad. We ended their use. We know that the burning of fossil fuels produces CO2 emmissions. We have learned to lower them. We've now learned that cattle methane emmissions has a significant impact in global warming. Yes, we could even stop eating beef and close down the commercial cattle farms. But what's the next factor? What's the thing we're doing today that has the unforseen impact on tomorrow?

As we work toward the electric car, do we have the capacity to create green electricity? Can we wind farm enough energy to power a green trucking fleet to bring free-range beef across the globe, or do we simply off-set one environmental catastrophe with another?

I know that no one is saying that global warning isn't real. I know the media can sensationalize aspects of it's reporting. I know that in this country, the reality of "global climate shift" has been a polarizing political topic. But I also know that the reality of human impact on our environment has come to a deadly tipping point, and whatever terminology you chose to use... whatever issue seems most rational... whether you concern yourself with pollution, air pollution, the Ozone layer, the greenhouse effect, global warming, global climate shift, fossil fuel dependence, or the next Ice Age... it's all the same thing. Our manipulation of this planet for our own means, has cause significant devistation that its effects have neared (or possibly passed) irreversability.

I'd consider that fact reasonably sensational.

That was a very well written bit of information CF. I was wondering if you and others commenting here have seen Al Gore's " An Inconvenient Truth" ?
More importantly though!!

I wanted to show you where I was on August 3rd around 3 P.M..It may look familiar to you, and your ears may have been burning, because I was thinking about you and Molly as I was going through here on my way to Mystic CT., and seeing this from the front of my trailblazer.

katesawjack wrote:That was a very well written bit of information CF. I was wondering if you and others commenting here have seen Al Gore's " An Inconvenient Truth" ?

I have. That's where I draw the 20 year figure from. Like anything, I don't believe every "fact" Gore gives in that movie... but then again, you don't usually get a Nobel Prize for just making stuff up.

katesawjack wrote:More importantly though!!

I wanted to show you where I was on August 3rd around 3 P.M..It may look familiar to you, and your ears may have been burning, because I was thinking about you and Molly as I was going through here on my way to Mystic CT., and seeing this from the front of my trailblazer.

Yup... that's home, or rather 1 exit East of home. Mystic's great... that's where we went for my last birthday.

We went to Mystic Seaport, and of course we had to go to Mystic Pizza.
I have never seen the movie, but can you believe it,when we got home it was playing on one of the movie channels. I didn't see it from the start,but it is going to be on again.