Smokey - the Karma Policeman

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Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by TheHolyStickman on Sun May 18, 2008 10:59 pm

Ok heres my first proper theory on this site. So here goes.

We dont know much about the monster except that it kills people and that it can be at least set loose somewhere by Ben. The first victim of the Smoke monster was Seth Norris the pilot, as of yet we dont know why he gets killed. Maybe It was mad that a giant plane had just crashed on its island. I don't think its important. The next time we see the monster he stares down Locke in the jungle. Afterwards in episode five - The White Rabbit. Locke tells Jack that he looked into the eye of the island. We an assume fairly surley that he is talking about the monster. Locke says he saw a bright white light. When have we seen this before? Kate and Juliet are running through the jungle away from the smoke monster. They hide in some trees and then the monster approaches them and you see a number of White flashes. I believe that when this happens the monster is scanning you. This isnt a baseless theory I have mounds of evidence. In one of Eko's episodes he is with Charlie in the jungle and the monster appears. He just stares down Eko and does nothing. But then the camera circle so we see inside the monster. And if you freeze-frame it then you can see flashes of Eko's life for about five seconds. I believe this is the scanning. Later on in season three Yemi appears to Eko, the producers have said this is a manifestation of the monster. The monster now has the power to draw up any vision from Eko's past and use it to influence him.

What happened next time Locke saw the monster? It was the series one finale and they were taking the dynamite back to the swan station. The monster appears, it tries to take Locke down a vent of some sort. (Maybe to Jacob). But the dynamite ward it off.
What happens next time Eko sees the monster? In season three, the cost of the living. After seeing Yemi he is killed, in style, by the monster.
Why did it try to take Locke down the vent? He scanned Locke and saw that he was special. From that moment on the island and various other things have tried to get Locke to Jacob. Maybe as a replacemet for Ben, or even perhaps Jacob.
Why did it kill Eko? The monster scanned Eko saw that he had killed in the past and saw that he coud go back to those ways so easily if tempted.

Essentially the Smoke Monster is the Karma Policeman of the island. And a very good one at that. Now obviously he has his limits. He probaly cant leave the island. He has certain rules. If he didnt have rules then they would have got it to wipe out the DHARMA, and they would get it to kill all the frieties or at least sink the ship. Finally, I believe that the Smoke Monster represents some part of the island. My guess that the island is split into three parts Jacob is the physical form of the island, The smoke
monster is the will and that the invisible force sometimes called fate is the mind
of the island.

P.S. Once again I hope someone gets my Radiohead title.

TheHolyStickman afro


Last edited by TheHolyStickman on Sun May 18, 2008 11:27 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Spelling mistakes)
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by JimReaper on Mon May 19, 2008 3:00 am

Theory police! Arrest this man!

No actually its not bad, I think we can take it as granted that the monster can read peoples thoughts and memories.

Personally I more and more thinking that Ben ordered the monster to kill Eko. Could be for a number of reasons 1) As you said, his violence made him a threat. 2) Eko maintained the button pushing after Ben had manipulated Locke to stop doing it, he didn't want him getting in the way again. or 3) Revenge - Eko confessed to Ben that he had killed two of his people, Bens people wanted to see Eko get his pay back and like all leaders Ben occasionally does things to appease the masses.

So to expand on this, any ideas on how/why Ben is able to call the monster?
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by Lojozz on Mon May 19, 2008 1:53 pm

Hey good work Stickman. Do you think Ben is in complete control or can he just direct him using the vents?

JR Ben had Smokey kill Eko? Thats interesting I would say if true it would be a mix of 1 & 2 but it could actually be all 3.
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by AngeloComet on Mon May 19, 2008 2:47 pm

Here's the crucial element about the Black Smoke for me. Does it have a consciousness? Does it make decisions? If so, are they decisions that were programmed or designed, or are these decision-making properties developed by the Black Smoke itself?

Linking it to the Island, as you have, kind of proposes a form of answer to that. If the Island has a power, then it may also have a form of decision-making consciousness and the Black Smoke is merely a security extension of that.

I say "merely" like that's the most normal, humdrum thing in the world.

Phew! For a minute there I LOST myself. . .
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by vincentthedog on Mon May 19, 2008 5:39 pm

Could smokey be the islands way of course correcting? Seth Norris not supposed to be the pilot. Ecko not his brother? But it must also determine who can help the island and who would hinder it. Kate has Killed but maybe she was more redemable than Ecko. Oh maybe we can rename smokey Earl as in my name is...
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by TheHolyStickman on Mon May 19, 2008 6:01 pm

I like the idea that Ben set the monster on Eko theres some strong evidence about it. But I still dont think Ben has complete control over the monster. I believe monster was made to asses things and make descisions about them. So whether or not Ben could suggest things to the monster as if it were a real person is the real question. My theory is that Ben did not set the monster on Eko but he got it to scan him.


Last edited by TheHolyStickman on Mon May 19, 2008 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Missed something)
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Hey

Post by retroactiveman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:39 am

I dont know about karma policeman, but hey not bad.

What about this...

Ben invokes the smoke monster, when Widmore "changes the rules".

[Self promotional plug: I personally dont think that their are any rules, that Ben invokes rules to rules to use rules, but that is neither here nor there (if you want to read how I really feel about the rules situation feel free to check out my "Ben as game theorist post").]

Widmore, via his agent Keamey, changes the rules. By changing the rules, Widmore/Keamey violates a natural law, bedrock principle. What does this violation deserve?

Retributive justice. Therefore Smokey wreaks (sp? its a weird word to write) havoc.

Now, compare the situation to Mr. Eko. Mr. Eko is truly unique from all the other characters we have been introduced to, in that he expressly confronts and attempts to overcome his past. From 3.5

EKO: I ask for no forgiveness, Father. For I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive.

Is this in a sense becoming more human than human? It is this moment where the smoke monster takes him down; when echo steps out of the valley, refusing to reflect on himself, when eko tries to step out.

What has this to do with Ben's express invocation of the Smoke Monster?

Some have suggested that the smoke monster is a course corrector. I guess this means that the smoke monster would tailor the loose threads.

I would suggest that, instead, the smoke monster represents a bed rock principle, a "natural law" principle, akin to the categorical imperative, which for the sake of humanity, you are required not to cross.

Now, is the Bedrock principle being controlled by Ben?

I would say yes.

Why? I dont know


Last edited by retroactiveman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional content)
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by Lateralus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:06 am

I think that when the monster shows up as Yemi, he tries to get Eko to confess his sins. Any Catholic schoolers know that you can't get to Heaven unless you confess all of your sins to a priest and so can be forgiven of those sins. (I could go in more detail, but i really don't feel like it). Now i only think the writers used that as a base premise for that scene.
Eko chose not to confess his sins because he felt he had not sinned and therefore nothing to confess. I think this confession scene was not one of "What have you done wrong?" but more of "What have you done wrong that you would do over again?" Eko says he would do nothing different, and then gets killed.
And i'm still not 100% convinced that the smoke monster Ben "summoned" is the same as the one we have seen before.
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Lateralus

Post by retroactiveman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:12 am

Double smoke monsters? Maybe we are all smoke monsters at heart. Wouldn't that be awesome. But you may be right, you may be right. If every smoke monster we see has no connection to the other smoke monsters, then there really is no basis for comparison right?

Do you have any idea what controlls any of the smoke monsters we have seen?

Good comment.
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by retroactiveman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:14 am

Also, Lateralus, impliedly, in your post, Eko is unapolagetic. This is essentially what I was trying to suggest in my post. Sorry if I obscured this point.

If you are outside of your past, you cannot be controlled. If you cannot be controlled or manipulated, Ben has no use for you.
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by Lateralus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:46 pm

we've seen the little puffs floating through the trees, and then the scene where three smaller puffs form together into one big one that tries to attack Kate and Juliet. And now the big freight train sized beast that went after Keamy's guys... then let them go. They may be all in the same. Smokie(s) could float around whenever they feel like it, doing what they want. Then maybe someone can use the room under Bens house, flip its switch to "Overdrive Kill" and thats what we saw.

And kind of off topic here. anyone seen Indy 4 yet? One of the first scenes, Indy uses gunpowder to find the magnetic source they are looking for. He tosses a handfull of gunpowder into the air and it wisps its way towards the source. That reminded me a lot of smokie. Of course just about every movie i see now it seems i ask myself "How does this relate to LOST"
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by vincentthedog on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:01 pm

I thought the same thing Lateralus that magnetic dust reminded me of smokey.
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by TheHolyStickman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:01 pm

Yeah I saw it and thought of smokey.
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by Caged_Faraday on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:42 pm

If this is an Island full of insane magnetic properties, why can't "smokey" be some variety of magnetic field himself... made visibly by the fine metallic dust trapped in the field. Smokey has but one power that we've seen, and that is "grab and toss into mid-air... violently", perfectly viable for a magnetic field, expecially if its victim is wearing so much as a belt. Heck, it's conceivable that a powerful enough field would be able to attract blood iron.

Pardon me if someone's said this already... or if it should be it's own theory. It just came to my head when Lat and Vincent made their comments.

Oh, and HSM, Karma Police is possibly my favourite Radiohead song.

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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by retroactiveman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:56 pm

Faraday...I love your posts.

I would be interested to know if you have any thougts re who would be controlling the Magnetic Field or whether the field acts under its own volition.
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by Caged_Faraday on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:15 pm

Well... I can't imagine a magnetic field having "intent" of its own... so if it acted at random, it would be random. If smokie is a magnetic field, any time it attacked with purpose, it would have to be under someone's control, no?

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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by retroactiveman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:26 pm

Ok, so then if it is or has the effects (we observe it acting), as some have variously observed, a "karma policeman", a "course corrector" or a "bedrock principle", while these labels apply a, I dont know, a higher or moral identity, if it seems logical that the smoke monster is actually under human control, would this suggest to those evoking the moral/higher identity, that this identity actually finds its source in and is enforced by a human being through his or her will?
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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by Caged_Faraday on Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:15 am

By this thought process, yes, HSM's theory would still prove equally valid if one applied it to the one controlling the smoke monster, rather than the smoke monster itself.

I don't want to take anything away from the HolyStickMan, nor do I care to hijack his theory. I meant only to add to a thought brought up in the comments, not change the discussion. By my very nature, I tend to concern myself with, and focus on, the scientific elements of the Island over the mystical and philosophical.

It comes down to Man of Science; Man of Faith.

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Re: Smokey - the Karma Policeman

Post by TheHolyStickman on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:00 am

Caged_Faraday wrote:If this is an Island full of insane magnetic properties, why can't "smokey" be some variety of magnetic field himself... made visibly by the fine metallic dust trapped in the field. Smokey has but one power that we've seen, and that is "grab and toss into mid-air... violently", perfectly viable for a magnetic field, expecially if its victim is wearing so much as a belt. Heck, it's conceivable that a powerful enough field would be able to attract blood iron.

Pardon me if someone's said this already... or if it should be it's own theory. It just came to my head when Lat and Vincent made their comments.

Oh, and HSM, Karma Police is possibly my favourite Radiohead song.

Definatley my favourite theoryist. I love reading them. So Smokey is a movig magnetic field, being controlled by something?
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