Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

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Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by TheHolyStickman on Wed May 21, 2008 7:59 pm

Before I start with the real theory I need to give some background information. This theory revolves around an idea from Philips Pullmans Northern Lights (a great book). In this book Lyra the protagonist of the story, recieves an object early on. This oject called an Alethiometer is a truth teller. There are 32 (I think) pictures round the edges of this compass looking object. There are four needles on it, three of these you can move with your fingers, with these you ask a question. For example; if you chose the baby, the house and the hour glass, the question would be what time will the baby be born. The forth needle will spin once you have positioned the other three. Heres the catch it uses symbols to answer as well. But, these symbols have more than one meaning, depending on how times it spins round before landing on its destination. If it spins round twice then stops then you use the second meaning. In this book, only Lyra can read the Alethiometer without using the book that tells you what the symols mean. I think you can see where I'm going.

While watching Cabin fever for the second time, I noticed that the scene between Richard and Locke was a lot like the Alethiometer in 'The Northern lights'. Richard shows Locke six objects, these are; a baseball glove, a book entitled "Book of Laws" a small container of sand, a compass, a comic book entitled "Mystery Tales", and a knife. Locke chooses the The sand and the compass, then as he goes for the book of laws Richard looks hopeful, but he chooses the knife Richard looks angry and leaves. I'm assuming that Richard is trying to determine Lockes personality and such things. In the book it is made very clear that the hour glass means change. So the granules of sand could mean change or death. The compass could mean direction or measurement. Change could relate to Locke and the others maybe as a change would happen soon. The purge, the old leader steps down and Ben replaces him/her. The compass could relate to Locke does not what direction to take, he wants to be the quarter back, he wants to be the prom king but its not going to happen. He knows he has to be that person, as his teacher said, surrounded by test tubes in that science lab. He is confused about his destiny.

Finally we have the Knife and the book of laws. Locke looks at the book of laws for a while, but then chooses the knife. I belive that these represent the opposites of each other. While the book of laws reprents who Locke was pre-crash. Changing fate, fitting in, looking for an answer, a man of science. While the knife represents what Locke was post crash. Freedom, being yourself, Accepting fate, a man of faith. Richard clearly wants Locke to be a man of science. But Locke is not that man, I cant remeber what episode but Locke said that he was either a Farmer or a Hunter. It seems that at this early age Locke was not ready to join the others he was not the farmer that Richard wanted him to be, he was the hunter.

P.S. If you didnt get it 'Knives out' was my not so cleverly disguised Radiohead title today.

P.P.S. Does anyone think that MSHL was influenced a little by Dr Cox from Scrubs. He reminds me of him.

P.P.P.S If you think it needs to go there SunnyP can you put this in the 'No spoilers for UK section', I dont know if they've seen this episode yet.

TheHolyStickman


Last edited by TheHolyStickman on Wed May 21, 2008 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Message for SunnyP)
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by AngeloComet on Wed May 21, 2008 8:14 pm

THS - I;m not even going to try and slot in some form of Radiohead quote into this comment. . . It wears me out.

Heh.

Anyway, I have my own interpretation of the object selection scene (which isn't really mine, it's drawn from a Buddhist process of selection) - which can be read in my analysis (which I believe is on this site).

I personally think the knife was the wrong object because Locke was trying to wear his 'hunter' personality, when his real persona, the more spiritual, peaceful side ought to have been the one he automatically reverted to.
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by TheHolyStickman on Wed May 21, 2008 10:10 pm

Yeah thats sort of what I was trying to say in my post, and I saw the analysis of Cabin Fever I think your spot on there.

Heheh I like your commet at the top. It made me laugh until my head fell off (and swallow till I burst)
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by puchita on Wed May 21, 2008 10:14 pm

I saw it more as a test of personality and preference as well. All the objects entail a side/trait of John, he's had so many sides/traits we dont know what he's really like. I think Richard was trying to figure out who John really is. what is his real personality?
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Wed May 21, 2008 10:54 pm

I saw it completely differently.

I saw it as a mindgame, some reverse psycology.

Locke is drawn to the knife as it represents his warrior spirit, the same spirit that Alpert wants to draw out. He picked the right objects, but Alpert acted the way he did to enforce that "dont tell me what I cant do" attitude. To force Locke to become obsessed with proving he is special...because deep down he knows he is.

In responding how he did, Alpert set in motion a train of thought, a desire and an ambition for Locke - to be special. He needed this push to become the man he is on the island.

(p.s. UK has seen episode 11 now so its fine here)

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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by TheHolyStickman on Wed May 21, 2008 10:59 pm

Ok SunnyP I could get on board with that, it did seem like Richard was very intelligent and that his way of testing was somewhat not showing his full potential. That could be the reason Locke gets all "This is my destiny, dont tell me what I cant do". Both Alpert and Abadonn want to get him to the island it seems. That while abadonn tries to directly make him Richard is more patient and wait 40 or 50 years just for Locke. He must be special.
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by Lojozz on Wed May 21, 2008 11:00 pm

SBP thats very interesting I hadn't looked at it like that, what about the attempt to get him to join the science school, how does that fit in?
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by TheHolyStickman on Wed May 21, 2008 11:07 pm

Maybe he felt that Locke was changing his opinions, as he clearly wanted to be the person who likes cars and guns and fishing. His teacher part of the reason he became who he is today.

Sorry for posting on my own theories too much, couldnt help it.
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by MollyCocktail on Wed May 21, 2008 11:09 pm

I'd venture to say that Alpert got upset by John's knife selection because it was a lie. John chose the object that represent who he desired to be, not who he really was.
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by eda on Wed May 21, 2008 11:11 pm

I definitely agree with Sunburned Penguin Cool

I thought I was the only one who could see that Alpert's disappointed expression was fake !
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by MollyCocktail on Wed May 21, 2008 11:16 pm

SunburnedPenguin wrote:I saw it completely differently.

I saw it as a mindgame, some reverse psycology.

Locke is drawn to the knife as it represents his warrior spirit, the same spirit that Alpert wants to draw out. He picked the right objects, but Alpert acted the way he did to enforce that "dont tell me what I cant do" attitude. To force Locke to become obsessed with proving he is special...because deep down he knows he is.

In responding how he did, Alpert set in motion a train of thought, a desire and an ambition for Locke - to be special. He needed this push to become the man he is on the island.

(p.s. UK has seen episode 11 now so its fine here)

Damn Penguin! Nice call!
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by vincentthedog on Wed May 21, 2008 11:45 pm

First off if ur 12 big props. Golden Compass very good book but I don`t see it relating to Lost. I have always thought the scene was the Buddist tradition of finding the new Budda, as AC stated. But SunnyP may have me change my mind. Good stuff people!!
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by l337Jacqui on Thu May 22, 2008 1:37 am

I never thought about it like that Jax! Awesome idea!!!
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by Hope on Thu May 22, 2008 6:36 am

I like reading theories that make me think. Good view on the scene Penguin
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by chirpey1987 on Thu May 22, 2008 12:07 pm

[quote]I personally think the knife was the wrong object because Locke was trying to wear his 'hunter' personality, when his real persona, the more spiritual, peaceful side ought to have been the one he automatically reverted to[/quote

I agree with angelo
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by chirpey1987 on Thu May 22, 2008 12:08 pm

i don't know why my qoute thing did not work out lol
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Thu May 22, 2008 1:54 pm

Also with AC on this one...Locke showing what he wishe he was, not waht he really was. That fits into the whole theme of his flashbacks.

and HSM...Dr. Cox from Scrubs?!?!? Wow, he's the only character I really like on that show. Good catch on that one!

But that said, I must now channel Dr. Cox and reply:

Listen here newbie, noohohohohohoh. You are
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG WRONG!
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
lol!
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by TheHolyStickman on Thu May 22, 2008 8:01 pm

Lol, Perry.
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Re: Keep the Sand and Compass but the Knives out.

Post by retroactiveman on Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:37 pm

I see that this thread hasn't been posted on in quite some time, but in my post "What could have gone wrong between locke and bentham" i put out there connections between the empiric thought of locke and bentham, while also noting maybe that the difference between the knife and the book of laws indicates difference in their thought.

The idea of Alpert attempting some kind of reverse psychology is very interesting though...
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