What Frank Lapidus Said

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What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Wed May 21, 2008 9:45 pm

Reading Hope's comment on 'Kelvin did it!' by Lojozz, which you can find at the end of this post, I came up with the question












- What if Frank Lapidus was indeed replaced by Seth Norris for a special purpose- however, what if the purpose was not to land/crash the plane on the island with minor damage, so that at least the passengers who were crucial according to the people who hired Seth Norris would survive, but the opposite- their aim was to prevent 815 from going in the island's direction ?












Now, we know that the use of the term 'supposed to' is not just a coincidence on the show since Mrs Hawkings has caused us all to embrace it in its most literal sense. Although taking elements such as pre-destined future and course-correcting for granted doesn't necessarily make it any easier for us to grasp what is exactly going on, I'd like to refer to 2 cases where they could indeed make things a bit more clear - and support my argument !



1- Locke believes that some of the survivors, if not all, are supposed to be on the island. That it's their DESTINY. DESTINY has pre-arranged this.








2- Frank Lapidus claims that he was supposed to be flying 815 that day. So it must have been his DESTINY.



What does this mean ? As Mrs Hawkings explained during Course-correcting 101, you can't change your destiny. Which means that, had Frank Lapidus flied 815 that day, the ones who were supposed to end up on the island, would again, end up there, alive and well. Universe has a way of course correcting. Of course, there could be certain people, good or evil, like those who may have hired Seth Norris, who know about the future and who would like to change the destinies of some so that they can shape the future as they wish. Or, the DESTINY, as we know it, might have gone utterly corrupt due to some experiments similar to various time-travel studies in nature, giving these mysterious individuals, the scope of power of who is yet to be revealed, a good reason to step in and act as course-correctors themselves. Either way, let's don't forget the point that DESTINY wanted Frank Lapidus to be the pilot to bring Locke and possibly a few of his fellow survivors down on the island.



Well Seth Norris did. Has UNIVERSE, or DESTINY been course-correcting ever since, to correct the mistake that had occured ?








Or was it all corrected in a week, or a month, as electromagnetic anomaly brought the plane down, those who were supposed to survive did and the rest just died ?










I won't go into further details on the subject. Although it could go on and on..










DESTINY wins either way. I believe that if an organization had a secret motive to change the pilot, to prepare some kind of set up, related to what would happen on the island later on, then they certainly knew what was going to happen in the future.






So they also knew that Frank Lapidus WAS SUPPOSED to bring those who were SUPPOSED TO be on the island, to their reserved playground.



And the only reason for them to change the pilot could be that they didn't want 815 to land/crash on the island. If that plane was equipped by some special technology to spot electromagnetic anomaly, I'd say it wasn't so that the plane would be pulled in its direction, but rather that it would be able to avoid its pull.
(I needed to add this part as a conclusion, to repeat what I said in the beginning-)


And you are SUPPOSED TO believe me ! lol. Because I just spent an entire hour to post this Wink ..Well I've been suffering from procrastination, so..










******************************************************************


This is Hope's comment on 'Kelvin did it!' by Lojozz.



'This was in an old post that i put on LT.com




The Hanso Foundation was creating high tech piloting technology for Oceanic Airlines. This technology was called Artificial Intelligence Piloting System (AIPS). (see Hansoair.org). They claim that is was never used, but what if it was? In trying to solve the mystery behind the plane crash, the Hanso Foundation and authorities blamed a severe storm with unusual electo-magnetic readings. Lets say that the mentioned storm did knock out multiple flight electronics and confused mainland tracking systems, however this was planned. When all of the systems went out, the new AIPS kicked on and led the plane to the island. The plane did arrive at the same exact time that the button should have been pressed. What if the system failure was planned to suck the plane in. * Just occurred to me. The producers have said that there was a clue in the beginning that we all missed and I have heard that the clue was the name of the episode itself. What if it was, but not because of the pilot that dies, but because of the one that actually got them to the island.* '


Last edited by eda on Thu May 22, 2008 2:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Wed May 21, 2008 9:49 pm

Sad You have to put up with the blank spaces between the paragraphs, I just can't fix it drunken
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by TheHolyStickman on Wed May 21, 2008 10:15 pm

Wow eda I like the depth of your theory a lot. I agree with a lot of your points about course correction and who as supposed to be flying the plane.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Wed May 21, 2008 10:29 pm

Thanks THS. It's a bit scattered you see. I could have summarized it in one paragraph !
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by nino_1 on Wed May 21, 2008 10:36 pm

so thats why the smoke monster kill seth norris! he screw up by crashing the plane
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Wed May 21, 2008 11:03 pm

Well, yes nino, that's possibly the reason it killed him. My guess would be that the smoke monster and the people who hired Seth Norris are on the same side. They are not happy with the fact that 815 crashed on the island and that the crucial people survived. But maybe instead of killing all right away, it came up with other plans. We have witnessed the smoke monster try to manipulate some of the survivors-such as Eko, by appearing as Yemi and forcing him to keep entering the numbers ad to help keep the island remain hidden.
But when he couldn't fulfill his mission, it killed him.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by nino_1 on Thu May 22, 2008 12:19 am

damm good explanation eda, good job
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by vincentthedog on Thu May 22, 2008 12:57 am

I need to think now... very good.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Thu May 22, 2008 1:02 am

+1 Eda

However, it does call into queston the matter of free will.

Basically, no matter what the Losties, Dharma, Widmore, the Others or anyone else does, Destiny will see to it that everything that unfolds in this story will do so as it is supposed to...unless the island has a way of "un-doing" destiny.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Thu May 22, 2008 2:02 pm

MSHL, thanks for the +1 Smile

I just had to have a constant variable to form a theory that would make some sense.

So you're saying it could be the ISLAND vs DESTINY.

At most, there could be 4 or 5 different forces. Such as the ISLAND, DESTINY, WIDMORE, BEN, JACOB (I'm just guessing).

But don't you think that Mrs Hawkings sounded more like a representative of DESTINY and not the island. Because she mentioned the UNIVERSE.

So when she says something is supposed to happen in a certain way no matter what, I think she speaks for DESTINY, and not the island, if the island is a different force. And when Locke and Lapidus use that same term to describe the will of some force, it's most probably the same force Mrs Hawkings is talking about.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by chirpey1987 on Thu May 22, 2008 2:05 pm

yeh +1 great theory
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Thu May 22, 2008 2:08 pm

Thanks Chirpey Very Happy
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by StitchExp626 on Thu May 22, 2008 3:33 pm

+1 from me, I think that we will find out more about Seth before too long.

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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by tracker on Thu May 22, 2008 3:46 pm

Great presentation and well thought out.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by AngeloComet on Thu May 22, 2008 3:54 pm

Interesting idea - but being a man of science (a tough gig in Lost, these days!) I struggle with this in real terms.

If you're right, and Seth Norris was supposed to avoid the Island, then you could argue that was why he lost communications and went 1,000 miles off course. The reason for the lost communications could be down to, as you phrase it, 'destiny'.

Personally however, I think if Seth had been charged with one task - Make sure this plane does not get to the Island - there are smarter ways to make sure that doesn't happen. I mean, he had one mission, to avoid the Island, and lo and behold he managed to crash on it. That's a tremendous cock-up, no?

I do think there is some significance that Frank was the intended pilot, but I wonder if it's not just going to prove significant to Frank and Frank alone. That is, he ought to have been on the Island instead of Seth - and so Seth was instantly killed and now, finally, Frank has been brought to the Island and the universe has course corrected in this respect.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Thu May 22, 2008 8:46 pm

Stitch, tracker, angelocomet- thanks for your comments !

Actually I used the word 'destiny' in the most scientific context possible. How I see that concept applied through the show is that, time is non-linear, so to avoid paradox, certain events must take place to form the delicate skeleton of this puzzle which one could call whatever they wish, and the rest of the pieces can be made fit according to decisions based on free will. Course-correcting is universe's way of putting the necessary pieces in place to prevent a paradox - which is only an issue in a world where time travel technology is available ! So maybe in our world there is no need for course-correcting, but in Lost, well we all saw what happened to poor Eloise Bunny I know she was a rat.


angelocomet-

'I think if Seth had been charged with one task - Make sure this plane does not get to the Island - there are smarter ways to make sure that doesn't happen'

I see your point.

But once you accept the assumption that Seth Norris was assigned to keep the plane away from the island (not to serve destiny but to serve people who wish to challenge destiny for an unknown purpose due to some information they gathered from the future!) then the rest is all up to the amount of current events they were able/allowed to change, without messing up with the skeleton of the puzzle. Maybe the only way they could interfere was through replacing Frank with their own man at the last minute, and using an 'electomagnetic-anomaly-resistant' plane. But they still had to fly the same plane and follow the same route over a rather dangerous zone, where they thought the special equipment built in (see Hope's comment at the end of my theory) would be able to fight the anomaly off. I'm talking about a time-loop/travel theory here too, these people traveled in time and may have calculated everything to make it right. But the universe decided to 'course-correct' itself right there and then, by either messing up the plane's engine, or increasing the magnitude of the anomaly so that the plane would be thrown off course, towards the island again.

Frank, on the other hand, was supposed to be on the island and he is now. But yea, what I have to defend here is that it wasn't a coincidence that he was replaced by Seth. OR that it wasn't just to keep Frank away from the island. I believe that the course-correcting from whatever went wrong during the plane crash is over, but now that they have been on the island they are burdened by different responsibilities.

It's all in Hope's comment really. I do have an extended version of this theory, including Kelvin and Ben and what these people have/have not learned from the future (I was that inspired after reading 'Kelvin Did it!' by lojozz) , but of course, I'm not 100% sure of any of this. No
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by AngeloComet on Thu May 22, 2008 9:22 pm

Eda: Anything that is 100% certain isn't up for debate, so don't worry about not being 100% sure!

The only thing I can be 100% sure about is that everything I state may be completely wrong.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by solarchap on Thu May 22, 2008 9:39 pm

a good read.


It never occurred to me that destiny had in fact brought Lapidus to the island eventually, which gets me thinking that there must be a very fine line between destiny and course correction, there is a kind of chicken & egg thing to it, add in some time-travel, in whichever context it does/does not apply, and there is a kind of infinte regress to it.



It all makes my head spin, which is why I'm always glad to read other peoples ideas on the matter.

AC- "The only thing I can be 100% sure about is that everything I state may be completely wrong.".... that is Priceless!! LOL!
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Thu May 22, 2008 10:01 pm

Thanks solarchap ! Writing it made my brain lag scratch Lapidus seems to be a cool guy I bet his role will turn out to be more crucial to the plot than it seems.

I'll keep that in mind angelocomet Cool
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by Lateralus on Fri May 23, 2008 3:02 am

Have we heard why that Frank wasn't the pilot that day? Did he call in sick, was he too drunk to fly? Did he get bumped by his superiors and replaced with the "new guy"?
He seems to have a grudge, against someone, big enough to warrant flying some Who?bodies in a chopper off a freighter in the middle of BFE-Pacific-side. Maybe hes doing this just to find out what happened to his friend and got sucked into something too big.He doesn't seem to realize what Keamy is really up too untill the last minute, kinda like Michael.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Fri May 23, 2008 2:30 pm

Lateralus- Frank Lapidus is described as a drunk, but we don't know, as you say, if that was why they replaced him that day. He didn't seem to be an awful, irresponsible pilot to me so far. Perhaps he became a drunk after 815 went missing for he thought had he been the pilot, the plane wouldn't have crashed ! Or he blamed himself for whatever reason they called him off duty. Or he blamed his superiors for replacing him without showing him a reasonable excuse. That's what he might be thinking, but according to my theory pig if he had flied 815, he would have found himself on the island just like Norris. Only that the smoke monster would have left him alone.

'Maybe hes doing this just to find out what happened to his friend and got sucked into something too big'

I agree with that. I don't think Frank is aware of what's going on. I'm not suggesting that he knew about his destiny and that's why he said, while talking to Oceanic airlines on the phone, that he was supposed to be the pilot of 815. That's what only we can observe, when we see more than one character referring to the causes and consequences of the same event, in a suspicious/ confident manner- believing that things didn't happen as they were supposed to / they indeed did.

And all because of what Mrs Hawkings told Desmond. Things go wrong in Lost universe, and universe course-corrects itself. I say it's a safe bet to think the crash of 815 was an event that somehow went wrong. And things usually go wrong when someone travels in time- such as Desmond- and tries to change the past.
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by Fate on Fri May 23, 2008 3:46 pm

I like it Eda but the problem is that if Lapidus was SUPPOSED to fly that plane (Not because he was suppose to be on the island) then he should have been flying that plane. Destiny right?

Like if Locke was suppose to be on that island, he would have gotten on it with or without 815. But you say Lapidus was suppose to be on that plane, he should have gotten on it one way or the other. Instead he got onto the island. So his destiny would more likely be for him to land/crash/strand on the island to furfill his tasks.

Hope I'm making sense

Good theory!

EDIT: apologies, didn't see the 2nd page and it has already been discussed
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Re: What Frank Lapidus Said

Post by eda on Sun May 25, 2008 3:57 pm

Fate-

I'm glad that you're satisfied with my explanations , I don't know how I could further expand them, although I can always try Neutral
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