Ben can't go back?

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Ben can't go back?

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:53 pm

Ben said in the finale that he can never go back to the island. But just what does he mean by that?
There are several possibilties:

1. He actually cannot go back...In other words, Jacob/island will not ALLOW him to physically return to the island. It would seem this is some kind of punishment

2. Maybe it is some result of leaving the island in the manner shown. Pehaps the time traveling/paper mache' wheel changes someone physically which prevents them from going back.

3. Maybe he can't return because he simply has no idea where the island is.

I'd like to believe #3 but I think #1 is more likely. I think #2 is least likely.

#1 because: Mostly because he tells Locke that he can never return after he moves the island and because he was seen fighting back tears of despair just before he finishes turning the wheel. While Ben can never truely be counted on to tell us what is actually going on, his moment of tearful despair just before he did the deed (I thought that was the best moment of the finale-hokey set notwithstanding) has to be seen as genuine as he was alone at the time and had no reason to act heartbroken about leaving the island.

#2. Eh, maybe. Lost may give us some pseudo-scientific answer but it would be really unsatisfying.

#3. This the answer I personally prefer because I WANT to see Ben get back to the island and I think we will eventually see that happen. The only evidence that this is the case would be his telling Widmore (in his London flat) that the hunt was on for both of them. Not just him finding Penny and Widmore finding the island but BOTH of them finding the island instead? Also, he told Jack that he "had a few ideas"...could he mean plans about getting all of them back to the island, including him?

There is, of course, another possibility in regards to why Ben said he could never return...He's lying.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by vincentthedog on Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:30 pm

I agree I think it #3! I think Ben will manipulate Jack into getting everyone back by the end of next season and Ben will somehow hitch a ride with them. Ben
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by l337Jacqui on Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:14 pm

Yeah. Maybe he has an idea of how to get back and where it might be, but he needs the other "accepted" people to get back and he'll squeeze on in
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:19 pm

Yeah, I really can't imagine the show without Ben getting back to the island with the rest of them.

Perhaps getting the Losties back to the island will redeem Ben in the eyes of Jacob/island and allow him to go back.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by Moefy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:49 pm

but if ben goes back he will have nothing left. the others are like dogs following their leader, john wont give up that authority but i suppose its where ben belongs.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:27 pm

Moefy, does Ben's status on the island change if Locke really is dead?
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:26 am

I vote for option 4 "let's just say I wasn't being entirely truthful".
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by lostlikeyou on Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:01 pm

If Richard can travel too and from the island than why couldn't he just go to Ben and tell him where the island is? Even if the island moved forward 8 months, couldn't, in 8 months when Ben's time caught up with the island's Richard just tell him? Do other people travel back and forth that we know of? Even with Locke now heading up the others surely Ben has some use. What am I missing?

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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:23 am

LLY: I thinkt that is a really good point: either a) Alpert's agenda is separate from Ben's, and their falling out separates Ben from the island (this would explain why Alpert doesn't go and meet Ben)or b) Alpert and Ben are playing some deeper game and Ben while not estranged is using his estrangement to persuade the 6 to go back [maybe the show fills in this blank with a flashback with Ben and Richard discussing plans for the island]. I go with option a because it would make no sense to let the 6 off the island, only to have to bring them back (unless they are required to want to be on the island).
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by lostlikeyou on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:39 am

Didn't Richard help Ben in the Season Finale? I didn't know they had a falling out....I think whatever happened on the island after they left is the reason the 06 have to go back. Locke obviously screwed up and I really think Jack ends up being the true leader on the island. I don't think Ben new that when he let them leave...I think he thought it was locke. But that still doesn't answer the question.

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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:56 am

Sorry LLY: Im assuming that their must be a reason why Alpert lets him go. Remember that last season (season 3) Alpert was pushing John against Ben (for example giving Locke Sawyer's file). Ben knew his time was up. I dont think that this assumption is unreasonable.

Ben is using the 06 to get back to the island.

I think Ben knew that he would need the 06 off the island in the future. I dont think it is an accident that they got off the island. I wrote my rationale for why I think so in the post "Why Ben works so fast ...." But that is my only evidence.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by MollyCocktail on Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:02 am

If the island moved to the future, Ben would need 1.21 gigawatts of electricity to propel a Delorian to his destination and the only power source capable of generating that level of energy is a bolt of lightening.

This is the gospel according to Doc Brown.



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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:10 am

Sorry. No lightening bolts to spare, as they are all busy powering the panopticon.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:10 am

I think option #1 is the most likely. That the act of turning the wheel has the physical purpose of moving the Island, but it also serves a symbolic purpose of casting out the Island Chief to make permanent way for the 'new order'.

If it was something as 'simple' as not knowing where the Island is going to move on to I doubt Ben would weep so bitterly as he did. He'd just devote his life to finding the Island again (and his remark to Widmore, not long after leaving the Island, suggested to me that he knew where the Island had moved to).
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:23 pm

AngeloComet wrote:I think option #1 is the most likely. That the act of turning the wheel has the physical purpose of moving the Island, but it also serves a symbolic purpose of casting out the Island Chief to make permanent way for the 'new order'.

If it was something as 'simple' as not knowing where the Island is going to move on to I doubt Ben would weep so bitterly as he did. He'd just devote his life to finding the Island again (and his remark to Widmore, not long after leaving the Island, suggested to me that he knew where the Island had moved to).

I knew I went with option 1, but until reading this I wasn't sure why. I think your spot on with the island casting out the island chief to make way for a new order. So he can go back, if the island allows it. Perhaps in bringing the 06 back Ben will earn a nice retirement on the island.

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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by Occam on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:42 pm

I'm going with 2, although I think 1 will be the right one... Cool

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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:20 pm

Angelo, I agree with the isalnd chief thing (I have suggested regime change in other posts), but its a possiibility that ben's real move might be against alpert, ben's move of the island being some kind of regrouping in anticpation of this move
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by wtfsignmeup on Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:37 pm

I think Ben can't return to the island due to the effects of moving the paper mache wheel. I suspect that widmore also moved the wheel at one time. Ben will be able to manipulate events on the island by indoctrinating the O6 before they return.
I have an aversion to the Island Chief thing.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:02 am

wtf: any thoughts on why indoctrinating the 06 is required? and if he doesnt want to get back to be island chief (or ruler) any thoughts on why he might want to go back? and any thoughts on Alpert's role in the game?
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by wtfsignmeup on Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:25 am

retroactiveman wrote:wtf: any thoughts on why indoctrinating the 06 is required? and if he doesnt want to get back to be island chief (or ruler) any thoughts on why he might want to go back? and any thoughts on Alpert's role in the game?
Maybe indoctrinating is the wrong word. I think that the 06 will
probably be inadvertently following out Bens future plans. I think this
because of the look he had on his face after enlisting Sayid as his
assassin. He has his own agenda, revenge for Alexs' murder and for
being forced into exile.
I don't know that Bens major plan is to return although I think he
would lay down his life and others lives to protect the island.
I think Alpert is a native of the island and that they are custodians,
but to be chief of an island that we..(well I) consider to have a
consciousness of sorts seems to be barking up the wrong tree.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by wtfsignmeup on Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:40 am

Sorry for the double post. I just want to say that my opinion is probably wrong. When it comes to Lost it usually is although it doesn't stop me from voicing it Smile . You guys are far better read than I am and probably know the formula for this kind of story....(I'm winging it:)
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by retroactiveman on Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:59 am

wtf: I think that you are right on, or at least as close as somebody can be at this moment, I also think that indoctrinating is not to far off of what is going on (at the least Ben is playing the 06 (or at least Jack/Sayid/Hurley...I dont know about Sun).

Sorry if my questions sounded aggressive, I didnt intend them to be, I was just trying to pick your brain.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by jimbobajam on Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:07 pm

I totally agree that Ben is manipulating/indoctrinating the O6 in order to assist him in the future.

I also think that he probably killed Nadia in order to get Sayid on board and against Widmore. We only have Bens word that the other guy shot her. And can anyone trust his word? His devious look afterwards suggested that his plan was all coming together (and he loves that). And if you're in a fight, you'd want Sayid on your side.

Having said this, I haven't watched back the fourth series yet so if the timing of Ben leaping from the island and Nadias death don't add up then please shoot me down in flames and I'll rethink that one.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by AngeloComet on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:05 pm

Jimbo, the timing works fine except for the idea that Ben killed Nadia. She was dead when he 'arrived'.

Ben leaves the Island, finds out it's almost a year later than what it used to be. Then he sees Sayid on the television, and this is his first realisation that some of them did make it off the Island.

So then he evidently researches Sayid, and Nadia's death, and the people after him, and goes to the funeral. And then he either tells Sayid the truth and kills the man that killed Nadia, or makes up a story about the man Sayid gets suggesting he is the one that killed Nadia.

Either way, he got Sayid on his side and that was what he needed.
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Re: Ben can't go back?

Post by jimbobajam on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:56 pm

LOL. Cheers AC. You are the oracle of all things Lost!

As you say, whatever happened with Nadias death, Ben certainly used it to his ultimate advantage as ever. Very fortunate it happened though - why would Widmore have her taken out? Just to piss Sayid off?

In terms of "timing", I posted something on another thread concering what time period will be presented as the "present" in the next series. Will it pick up from when they were rescued and what is now happening on the island after the jump, or will we start off where we finished, ie at Locke, sorry Benthams, funeral - almost a year after as you say? Be interested to hear yours and anyone elses thoughts on the matter.
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