How to dissapear completely - The Island

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How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by TheHolyStickman on Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:39 pm

Ok as some of you will know I recently did a 'How to move the island rant' which is HERE
if you want to read it. I explained the ridiculous consequeces of what
would happen if this actually went ahead. One reason that will
definatley benefit from it. No-one could move an island, it is
ridiculous do think that by turning a wheel you could move the island,
(No matter how realistic Micheal Emerson made it look.) But, I dont
think it would be as hard to move an island in time.

In the orientation video for the Orchid, Edgar Halliwax explains that
he will move the test subject 1 second into the future. He said that "For the briefest moment the subject will appear to dissapear, but in reality...
That is the key point what will happen in reality, it will be in the
future. For one second it will gone, because it was in the future for
one second then time caught up with it again. So what if the island
moved into the future lets consider that possiblilty.

Since the island only moved in time, the tsunami argument is rendered
useless as the island doesnt actually move in space. The argument that
the island will have to appear somewhere else is also countered as the
island never moves, it stays exactly where it is, just moves in time.
And my third point was from a scientific view, it was that if the
island moved about 100 mps then the G-force you would get from that
would be unbearable and you would die. Also as I explained above Ben
would not have the man power to move an island manul methods, if it was
flipping a switch or turning a key then it would be beliveable, but
turning the island through man power. No. If he moved it in time this
is a lot easier to believe.

So now you might be thinking, so if the island moves in time only, then why does it dissapear.
Ok your probably not, but I might as cover all the sides of the
argument. Think about Dr Who; if he time travel does a copy of him
still stay in the time he teleported from. No. I know Dr Who has a lot
problems and paradoxes with time travel, but one thing has always been
certain, the one who time travels goes to that time. There is no copy
left of him/her in the time that you teleported from. Followed that. Ok
now in my analysis I said that I though the hatch blowing up moved the
island. But now I think the exact opposite. I think the hatch blowing
up brought the island back to its own time, thus making it visible to
the outside world. Think of the it as a snow globe, everything inside
that globe moves forward in time, so you can see why there might be
problems when trying to into a place which is in a different timeline.
Remember the finale of season 2. You saw the guys in that station who
just found the island. Becuase it just appeared again! The island was
previously in a different time from some unknown event, perhaps after
the purge so the DI couldnt get back on. The hatch made it come back,
and the wheel made it go forward again. I like this idea a re he-he-he ally lot more than the moving the island in space theory.

P.S There is currently a poll going for who should be in the hall of fame. You nominate and the top three get put in a poll and the winner of that goes into the hall of fame. We've only had two votes so far, so vote vote vote. The link is Here.

TheHolyStickman
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Re: How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by Caged_Faraday on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:00 am

OK, stick, in this case, I like your physics, but I hate your storytelling.

How for into the future do you propose they send the island?

If it's anything less than 5 years, what stops Widmore from just sitting there and waiting for it to show back up. He know there's a Orchid, he knows that that's where Ben's going to go, so ostensibly, he has a pretty good idea of what it does.

If Ben (or Jacob) is going to hide an Island from a man who knows where it is and what it does, he can't just blip it ahead a couple minutes. He'd have to move it far enough into the future that Widmore is dead already, or he'd have to move it through space and time.

So, since "the rules" probably wouldn't allow Ben to just run out the clock by moving the island to 2046, I have to guess, whether we like it or not, that there is some spacial movement.

Two things to point out, to make space-time movement feel a bit better...

1. Space and time are inherently connected. If you can move something from one point in time to another, it's moving from one point in space to another, so picking a different point in space for it to appear... not that huge.

2. Leave inertia out of it. The island isn't flying, or surfing, or otherwise moving through space, just the way the time travel works -- just the way Ben's own space-time travel worked -- the island just spontaneously appears in another place and time.

Now... the bad part... Fluid Displacement.

How much of the island moves? How much water moves with it? Islands don't float. The land mass of that island extends down to the ocean floor. That doesn't seem to match the minor displacement illustrated when the small void filled in on the sea.

So... what? Maybe when you move an island through space and time, you simultaneously move the corresponding amount of water the other way? that would fix the tsunami issue... but would be pretty odd. Plus, it doesn't even match the one-way time travel we saw in the constant. When Desmond was in 1990 (or whenever that was), 2004 Desmond was unconscious. There was no consciousness flip-flop... and that would be easier to deal with than matter flip-flop.

So... where does all that extra matter come from? To me that's the bigger problem than if the island can move in space and time.

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Re: How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by TheHolyStickman on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:11 am

Ok thanks for the comment, that was an idea and clearly it has some holes. I not too good on physics. So this was just some specualtion. Obviously it was not my best theory.

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Re: How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by Caged_Faraday on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:35 am

Actually, I liked your Physics... it was all sound. I just had issue with moving the island forward in time alone. To me, that didn't prevent Widmore from finding it.

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Re: How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by TheHolyStickman on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:52 am

Ahh yeah I forgot about the whole space time inseperable thing. The only way that now the tsunami could be canceled out would be if the island was a perfect circle (which I doubt it is) Oh well. Guess i'll just try again later.

Actually I think that Jacob may have influenced Widmore slightly in coming to the island. So that if he wanted Ben off, he could haave told him the only way to 'save' the island is to turn the wheel. Therefore getting Ben off and keeping Locke on.

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Re: How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:17 am

I don't think the Island could have moved significantly forward in time. By 2007 Locke will turn up in the real world trying to persuade the likes of Jack and Kate that they have to go back to the Island because a lot of things went very wrong there.

That means between 2004 and 2007 a lot of things had to go wrong on the Island. But if the Island moved significant forward in time that means the amount of time elapsed is a lot less.

It would also mean that, in 2007, the Island is right back where it was and Widmore will have no problem locating it.
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Re: How to dissapear completely - The Island

Post by TheHolyStickman on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:45 pm

Whoops, Guess I should have thought harder about that one.
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