Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

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Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:36 am

This prediction will take two years to prove true or false, but I wanted to say “you heard it here first”.

I now understand why most of you despise Jack so much. I knew Jack has been selfish lately, but only after the season finale did I realize how much of a hole he has really dug himself. And that hole, in my opinion, will ultimately become his grave.

I think Jack will die in the Lost Series Finale. I think this 180 degree turnaround from hero to goat that Jack has made was done for a reason by the writers. They are doing everything they can to make him look like the screw up, the liar, the drunk, the bad “father” (to Aaron), the bad “husband” (to Kate), the bad “friend” (to Hurley), and just the all around “Bad Guy” of the series.

Why are they doing this? I think they are doing it so he can pull the ultimate act of redemption in the series finale and remind us all of the Season 1 Jack Sheppard, when he was a leader, a life saver, and a friend. He will sacrifice his own life to make good on everything he has done wrong. It will remind us all of the “live together, die alone” Jack, as opposed to the “leave Jin behind, let Sawyer be the one to jump, leave EVERYONE behind as long as he and Kate get off the island” Jack.

Let’s face it. The writers love once-hated characters pulling unheard of acts of redemption in their final moments of life.

Charlie: In Season One he was a drug addict. In Season Two he was a kidnapper. But, we don’t remember those “Charlies”. We remember his ultimate act of redemption in Season Three when he sacrificed himself not only for the sake of Claire and Aaron, but for everyone on the island by warning them of the true identity of the freighter folk in his final seconds.

Michael: He killed Libby and Ana Lucia. He blatantly stabbed Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and Hurley in the back for his own selfish reasons by turning them over to the Others. But, my lasting image of Michael will be him sacrificing himself and giving the chopper those ever precious few extra seconds to get away from the boat. Even Jin forgave him in the end.

Even Ben: Although he doesn’t look too bad now compared to the likes of Widmore, Keamy, and even Jack, there was a time when Ben Linus was the bad guy of all bad guys. But, you can see it in his eyes as he turned the wheel, he too was sacrificing himself. He did not WANT to do what he did. He HAD to do it. And even though he didn’t die, and even though he was saving the “island” as opposed to a person, in a way, it felt like it was just as great a sacrifice to Ben.

Right now, Jack tells Kate that he was the one who “saved her” and that Sawyer “chose to stay”. Deep down, though, he knows he should have been the one to jump. If he had jumped and stayed on the island all those “very bad things” that Jeremy Bentham had told him happened once he left would not have happened at all. In the end, however, Jack will be the reason why Kate and Sawyer end up off the island together, safely.

Right now, Sun blames Jack for Jin’s “death”. Jack is the person who had the final say so in not going back for Jin after the explosion. I believe his exact words were “It’s over. He’s gone”. Those are some of the most heartless words we have heard all series. You can’t blame Sun for what she thinks of Jack. Looking back in hindsight, the chopper just ended up crashing in the water anyway, so it wouldn’t of hurt going back to look for Jin. But, in the end, I believe Jack will be the reason Jin and Sun get off the island together, safely. Yes, I do think Jin is still alive.

Right now, Jack blames “himself” for the situation with Claire and Aaron, and his nephew being separated from his rightful mother. Remember Hurley’s question to Jack in the season finale: “Once we drop everyone off at the freighter, we will come back for Claire and everyone else, right?” And how did Jack answer that? He said “Absolutely.” That never happened. He never came back and Claire was left on the island with all those “very bad things” that happened as a result of him leaving the island. But, in the end, Jack will be the reason why Claire and Aaron leave the island together, safely. And, yes, I do think Claire is still alive.

Somebody is going to die in the series finale. That I can guarantee. And there is no better candidate than Jack. And there is no better way for him to die than to give up his own life to ensure the “happy ending” for all those whose lives he has ruined by his decisions. He “fixes things”. He is in a big mess right now, but he will “fix it”, even if it means sacrificing himself. And in the manner in which he does it in, even all you Jack-Haters might have to applaud him, even if it is for a little while.


Last edited by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:02 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Font)
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:48 am

Very nicely written Smile

I am really going off Jack, I think he is a coward and the only reason he has ever helped anyone out is to satisfy his own need to fix things. Its not for them, but for him. I think you could be right though, I think he could be the one to ultimately save the day and turn it around.

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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Shamballa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:56 am

I think you may be right about Jack Irocz. It's the ultimate set up by the writers. It would be pretty crappy of them to have Jack die a loser.

I can't say I totally agree with you on Ben but I understand where you're coming from. I see the same old Benipulator in the flash forwards.

Maybe even a more dangerous Ben given that he may never get back to the island and his main motivation is revenge.

Good post.

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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by nino_1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:57 am

very nice iroc.

so claire will leave on a chooper like desmond predicted?

did desmond went way in to the future like 3 or 4 years a head?
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by lostlikeyou on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:07 am

I love this theory. I think this insight into the character development is the main point of lost....I think they (the characters) are excellently written and I for one LOVE Jack. He is such a tortured soul! I just want to slap him and say "what the hell are you doing!" I hope he redeems himself in everyone eyes, and more importantly his own. I can't think of a better way for it all to end....

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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:28 am

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I have always thought of Jack as my favorite character and the turn of events he has taken in the future really disturbs me. I even admit that part of this theory is wishful thinking in my desire to have Jack redeem himself. But, as lostlikeyou points out, I can't think of a better way for it to end either.

nino_1, good tie in with Desmond. I hadn't thought about that but, yes, this will lead to Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, but many, many years down the road.


Last edited by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by tracker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:49 am

Love it! Good job
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how about

Post by retroactiveman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:32 am

ben and jack locke-d in mortal combat, battling over the fate of the island, double takeout kind of thing, like the end of rocky two,,,

let me ask you a question though: besides the obvious structural gratification of the reverse othello move, what would Jack's redemption via death mean?

if you can answer that I will buy your theory.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:45 am

retroactiveman wrote:ben and jack locke-d in mortal combat, battling over the fate of the island, double takeout kind of thing, like the end of rocky two,,,

let me ask you a question though: besides the obvious structural gratification of the reverse othello move, what would Jack's redemption via death mean?

if you can answer that I will buy your theory.

To be completely honest, I didn't understand much of your comment, but if "Jack's redemption via death" means reuniting Sawyer and Kate, reuniting Jin and Sun, reuniting Aaron and Claire, and saving everyone else on the island in the process, then that is pretty much everything.

Think about it like the sacrafices Charlie and Michael made, but on a much grander scale, with a much higher-profile character.

Jack does not fear death. He was a split-second from killing himself on the bridge. What he does fear, as evident in the flash-forwards, is living with the guilt of what he did. If he can rid himself of this guilt and make good on everything, I think he would do it, even if it means giving his life.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by retroactiveman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:10 am

what is not to be understood about the post? the first part was a joke.

the second part merely asked a question.

maybe the question is what would his redemption mean?

what does jack's character's value, and what would his death mean?

by comparing his sacrifices with Charlie and Michael, for me to buy that comparison you would have to explain to me what their sacrifices meant?

does that make any sense?

by comparing jack to charlie and michael, you are saying that in essence they are all the same thing

let's say that instead of the word "sacrifice" you substitute the word "triangle"

look jack's triangle is like michael's triangle which is like charlie's triangle...only jack's triangle will be a bigger triangle

why is jack's triangle bigger,

whatever Im an idiot!
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:35 am

Retro, I'm gonna give this my best shot.

"what does jack's character's value, and what would his death mean?" I dont know. I guess what I'm trying to say is that his death would mean saving the day.

"by comparing his sacrifices with Charlie and Michael, for me to buy that comparison you would have to explain to me what their sacrifices meant?" Charlies sacrifice (in his eyes) meant saving Claire and Aron. He also warned them of the true identity of the freighter people, but he sacrificed himself basically because he thought it would save Claire and Aron. Michaels sacrifice meant trying to save everyone on the freighter. He did end up saving everyone on the chopper as he froze the bomb long enough for the chopper to take off.

"does that make any sense?" Not Really, but I'm trying.

"by comparing jack to charlie and michael, you are saying that in essence they are all the same thing" Not really. Actually when you compare things, you are usually trying to differentiate them, not say they are the same. I could compare a Corvette to a Volvo. That certainly doesn't mean they are the same thing.

"let's say that instead of the word "sacrifice" you substitute the word "triangle" Ugh.

"look jack's triangle is like michael's triangle which is like charlie's triangle...only jack's triangle will be a bigger triangle" I don't know.

"why is jack's triangle bigger," Because Jack's is an Obtuse triangle and Charlies is an acute triangle.

"whatever Im an idiot!" Now that I understood.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by retroactiveman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:45 am

thans iroc, good post
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by wtfsignmeup on Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:25 am

Great post Iroc. I actually prefer the flawed Jack of the future to the season 1, hero complex 'daddy didn't think I had what it takes' Jack.
I can see an iconic ending for him in the final finale and I hope he finds redemption, but he has soooo far to go. He left Juliet without a backwards glance or hint of regret after promising her they would leave together. That makes me angrier than any thing he has done. And to see her waiting on the beach until every one else had left like a true leader... aargh. Then he seems to continue with out remorse until things start to fall apart for him THREE years down the line?
I guess he really has been lying to himself but its just so hard to sympathise with this guy!
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by TheHolyStickman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:10 am

Yeah I like it Irocz. Jack has definately taken a turn for the worst. Maybe they realised that a lot of people didnt like him, so they intentionally made him bad.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by chirpey1987 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:36 pm

Really good theory irocz28, nicely written.

I have never really sat and thought jack is turning bad but after reading your thoery he is a bad ass lol,




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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:08 pm

Hey SP,

I wasn't thinking when I posted this, but maybe it would be better off in the BIG Theories section. Is there a way we can move it over there?
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Lojozz on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:17 pm

Moved to Big Theories as requested.

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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by MollyCocktail on Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:34 pm

Jack dying makes me happy in pants! Smile

Seriously, this was a great read! Nicely done!
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:53 pm

MollyCocktail wrote:Jack dying makes me happy in pants! Smile

Seriously, this was a great read! Nicely done!

Haha. It might make you just a little sad in pants too.

Thanks for the compliment.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by puchita on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:49 pm

i hope so man! jack has some making up to do as you so eloquently noted. good stuff.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by bananas on Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:36 am

Cool theory.
I still wish Kate had run him over when she was reversing her car to yell at him though.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Lost_Dbutz on Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:09 am

Irocz28, first of all, do you have any pictures of your old car?

No, it's actually cool to see that someone else likes Jack as much as I do. I can relate to him more than anyone else. I myself am more of a Man of science.

I think people hate Jack so much because he is the hero, it's just the thing to do, like the bad-ass side character (Saywer) and hate the strait edge law abiding hero (Jack). (of course, i still think that Eko was one of the biggest bad asses in Lost, too bad the actor had to leave).

So where is the rebuttle post that talks about how wrong your theory is? J/K
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Irocz28 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:21 am

Lost D_butz,

1) Yes, I will try to upload a picture of my old car. I am not too computer savvy when it comes to the pictures, but I'll try.

2) I also really like Jack and hope he does redeem himself. I have always said he is not the badass, he doesn't have a spiritual connection with the island, he doesn't travel through time with his mind, and he can't break someones neck with his legs with a breakdance move while being tied up. So in a way I can see how people don't find him too interesting. He is a regular guy who always tries to help others, and I respect that.

3) There is actually a rebuttal post on LT, but the person who wrote it misunderstood my post and thought I was making Jack out to look like a villian, which even the greatest Jack-Haters will admit is not true.
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Re: Jack: From Hero to Goat to Hero

Post by Lost_Dbutz on Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:26 pm

LOL, well if you have any questions on getting pictures posted, let me know. Photobucket.com is pretty simple, just upload your photo and they give you the code.

I actually saw that post on LT, that what I was refering to, funny stuff.
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