Why Claire is Alive

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Why Claire is Alive

Post by Irocz28 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:36 pm

Mr. MSHL had a good post on why he thinks Claire is dead. I started a reply but it simply became too big for a comment so I decided to just make a new post. I will attempt to discuss various reasons why I think Claire is alive.

1) As AC was first to point out in the other post, Claire appeared in Kate's dream, not like Yemi or Christian or Charlie, or any other dead characters who have appeared to the Losties while they are awake.

2) Just because she was with Christian doesn't mean she is dead. Jack saw Christian. Locke saw Christian. Michael saw Christian. They were all alive at the time. So why is it that just because she was in the cabin kickin' it with her pops, everyone thinks that she is dead?

3) All these "dead" people we see on the island like Yemi, Boone, Christian, etc., so far all they have done has been show up and talk (and only talk) to one person. So how could we believe that Sawyer physically picks up "Zombie like dead, but still able to communicate and touch and talk to the living" Claire, carry her to the house where she then communicates with four more people, and then breastfeeds her child "zombie-milk" all while she is dead??????

4) I don't see the similarities between Claire and anyone else who died on the island. Libby, for example, died. She was dead. They buried her dead body in the ground. The worms ate her dead body while it was in the ground. And then, she started to appear, to Michael, for instance. It wasn't like Michael shot her in the vault and she got up, started walking, talking, and breastfeeding, and then she turned out to be dead from the gunshot.

5) Not all Lost fans dig into every tiny detail like us. For example, I have a neighbor who is a "casual Lost-viewer". She watches the episodes once, usually while she is doing some on-line shopping, or laundry, or playing with her three year-old. While doing these activities during Lost is unheard of and unacceptable to us, believe it or not, this is how most Lost viewers are. Think about it. Lost had 12.3 million viewers last week. I haven't counted, but I don't think there are 12.3 million of us on these sites slicing and dicing every little detail. The other 12.2 million are "casual viewers."

And here is an example of a conversation I had with my neighbor. I'll cut right to the "Claire discussion".

Amy: I didn't like how Claire wasn't in the finale more. I like her.

Me: Well, you know Amy, a lot of people are saying she is dead.

Amy: What? How? And what people?

Me: Well, all my friends on the Lost sites say she died in that explosion when Keamy blew up her house.

Amy: Huh? No, Sawyer saved her from that. He carried her away, remember?

Me (excited and talking fast): Yeah, I know, but remember when Sawyer picked her up and she said "Charlie" and then Miles, who can communicate with ghosts, is like "I wouldn't be so sure of that" when she said "I'm a bit wobley, but I'll live".

Amy: .....No..... I don't remember that. You have to understand I don't watch the episode a hundred times and pay attention to every little detail like you.

Me (humbled): Oh yeah.... sorry.

Amy: And so what about Miles? She was communicating with everyone, not just the "ghostbusters". Wasn't she talking to Hurley and Locke and Sawyer? And I think she even breastfed Aaron after that. Yeah, she did. She breastfed Aaron when Miles was checking her out. Are you saying she was dead when she breastfed her living child?

Me (stumped and humbled): Well.... I am not saying it.... but some theorists on-line think so.

Me (excited again): You see they are drawing a lot of similarities between the Losties seeing dead people and the situation with Claire now. (I now go on a 15 minute rant describing Yemi, Christian, Boone, Shannon, Libby, Charlie, and all the other dead Losties who still appear.)

Amy (laughing, shaking her head, and walking away): You need to get a life.

Me (thinking to myself): Ouch.

What I am trying to say here, is that if Claire turns out to be dead, while it would somewhat make sense to us, the other 12.2 million viewers (including Amy) will basically be saying "WTF?" These tiny details the writers drop for us (paintings in the background, pictures on peoples desks, etc.) are very fun to dissect, but when do they really have any major impact on the show? Usually never. And when I say "major impact", this includes an original character being alive or being dead.


Last edited by Irocz28 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Lojozz on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:44 pm

Nice work Irocz totally agree.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:44 pm

Very well written, I like your neighbour already Smile

I agree with you, I have been fence hopping like you wouldnt believe on this one, but I am now going with my original thought which she is either drugged or been let into some kind of mind-blowing secret. Or probably both.

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Irocz28 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:47 pm

Thanks Lojozz and SP.

And I don't like my neighbor that much after that "get a life" comment. HaHa. The truth hurts.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Lateralus on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:56 pm

Crazy coincidence, I just happen to have that episode on my mp3 player at work. I was playing around with it a couple weeks ago and forgot all about it till now.

I re-watched that scene where Sawyer finds Claire after the explosion. He finds her in the yard under a sheet by the clotheslines. So you could arguably say that she was doing laundry outside and wasnít in the house at all when it exploded. And that could be why Hurley was watching Aaron at the time. Laundry is kind of hard to do with a baby around your neck.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Caged_Faraday on Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:58 pm

I agree. Simply put, no, she doesn't follow the pattern of most dead character re-appearances.

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Irocz28 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:04 pm

Good point Lateralus. Maybe she was outside when everything happened.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by vincentthedog on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:23 am

Wow that was great. Loved the conversation! I personally don`t think you need to get a life.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Hope on Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:32 am

I don't think so either Irocz. I guess that is because then maybe I would have to say the same thing about myself. Hehe. I can't help but be intrigued by this show. My husband doesn't disect the show either but he does like hearing about these things and have even come up with a few theories of his own...I'm so proud!!

I don't know what to think about Claire. Hurley and Sawyer and John and Ben assumingly all saw her and talked to her (I don't include Miles because he can see dead people). SO....I think she may be alive.

After Charlies death, and her lack of grieving, this could be some form of grieving. She could have been told something about the island and Aaron and such and in a sad state of mind just left because she honestly believes its what is best. Or something.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by katesawjack on Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:07 am


I do think Claire is alive,but have read somewhere that she will not even be appearing in season 5. But that her story is definitely not over.I think this picture of her and her behavior while in Jacobs' cabin was very
un-characteristic. Weird even , and not at all like the Claire we have seen in the past. Claire
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by TheHolyStickman on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:43 am

Well, I never believed that Claire was dead, simply because we never saw her getting killed. I love all the evidence about this Irocz. I do think Claire is alive, but I dont think we'll see much more of her.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:15 am

I think if she was going to turn up 'dead' then her body needed to be found before the end of Season 4. It hasn't. That means the writers would have to spring a 'surprise' like that having let it drag over across seasons, and expect people to still be floored by it.

People won't be floored by it. They'll be like your neighbour. They'll sit there confused, wondering if they missed something, unable to remember the little detail about the blast and the 'hints' in an episode they watched over nine months ago.

Claire is alive. If she isn't, it's appalling writing.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by StitchExp626 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:49 am

AC

I think that season four can be summed up by the phrase appalling writing.

The number of topics raised but the forgotten:

Faraday's card game/memory test ... an important scene or filler? If it is important will the casual viewer remember that brief scene in an episode they watched over 9 months ago? Not likely.

What about the role of Regina, wow she played a really interesting character and her story was so rivetting ... NOT. Would the casual viewer even remember the Regina character from a brief appearance in an episode watched over 9 months ago? Not likely.

What about the deal made between Jin and Charlotte, that went absolutely nowhere, Charlotte ended up having nothing to do with the helicopter and who was on it! Was that filler, and now does anybody remember that deal making scene, yet alone the casual viewer who might have watched that episode over 9 months ago? Not likely.

How about Mile's request for 3.2 million dollars, another storyline raised and forgotten in the same breath.

What about Jack's appendicitis, that storyline just appeared to be a filler, it went nowhere and had no real consequence.

Come on AC, was there really anything in season 4 of any consequence? That is of any real consequence in nine months time?

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:05 am

Heh! This is fun! There was plenty of consequence in Season 4, Stitch, but I'll have a run at what has been set out here. . . (Maybe set up a new post, for all to discuss the merits and weaknesses of Season 4?)

Faraday's card game/memory test ... an important scene or filler? If it is important will the casual viewer remember that brief scene in an episode they watched over 9 months ago? Not likely.

It was important in establishing Faraday's bad memory. This wasn't just important, it was essential, because the very next episode was The Constant where Faraday would encounter Desmond in his past. Without his bad memory Faraday would remember this event and create paradox problems.

Charlotte's aiding of Dan here was also foreshadowing their mission at The Tempest, where Dan was being relied upon to remember how to disable to the toxin.

What about the role of Regina, wow she played a really interesting character and her story was so rivetting ... NOT. Would the casual viewer even remember the Regina character from a brief appearance in an episode watched over 9 months ago? Not likely.

I'm glad they killed Zoe Bell. Did you see Death Proof. She's a great stuntwoman. Terrible actress. Less screen time the better. (Besides, she jumped overboard - probably she'll turn up five years in the Island's past before it moved!)

What about the deal made between Jin and Charlotte, that went absolutely nowhere, Charlotte ended up having nothing to do with the helicopter and who was on it! Was that filler, and now does anybody remember that deal making scene, yet alone the casual viewer who might have watched that episode over 9 months ago? Not likely.

Charlotte's capacity to speak Korean was revealed in this scene! And. . . ah. . . yeah. That was it.

How about Mile's request for 3.2 million dollars, another storyline raised and forgotten in the same breath.

I'd go easy on that one. Miles is, so far, the only member of the science team without a clear objective for being on the Island. What Widmore expects of him, and what his own agenda is, are yet to be seen.

(By the by, as a consequence of the writer's strike and the shortened season, the writers did express their regret at not being able to delve more into The Science Team's characters - since your points above are directed at them I think that concession should be acknowledged.)

What about Jack's appendicitis, that storyline just appeared to be a filler, it went nowhere and had no real consequence.

Are you kidding me? Given my massive battle to convince people that Jack was right to trust Juliet, and the majority of people all happily to label her as a scheming bitch, she then goes and performs life-saving surgery, sets up Jack and Kate, and then gets left behind on the Island. Is anyone still going to look me in the eye and tell me they think Juliet's a bad person?

The appendicitis also showed that Jack got ill. As Rose remarked, the healing properties of the Island don't work that way. Jack was the best chance for people to leave and he developed a fatal condition. This taps into deeper meaning about the Island's will and Jack's "We have to go back!" cry as it seems he should not have left, and the Island didn't want him to go.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Occam on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:46 am

StitchExp626 wrote:Was there really anything in season 4 of any consequence? That is of any real consequence in nine months time?

I know the question was not addressed to me but... I think last season gave the average viewer only two big facts for them to follow: there is some kind of "time-travelling" --although not in the usual sense of the word-- and the Island can be moved by using some ancient, and apparently "magic" artifact.

Apart from that, there's little else to say. Oh, yes, some Losties allegedly left the Island and are now fighting in two fronts: the "economic" one against Paik and --maybe-- Widmore, and the "ninja" one against Widmore. Of course Ben has his own faction and is trying to do his Benipulation trick to take the Losties back to the Island.

Anyway, this "OMG-for-just-an-episode moments" have happened before. Do you think what we call the "average viewer" remember the Four Toed Statue? Or even the Temple? The Black Rock? The "sickness"? Cassimir effect?

Dude, I really hope this season is the result of the writer's strike, 'cause if this is how "Darlton" wanted the show to be... I'll cry lots in two years time...

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by SamiLost on Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:21 pm

I agree with Stitch and Occam. An average viewer forgets about a lot of things after a week or at most after a couple of months. A lot of details also donít even seem important to an average viewer. e.g. Charlotte speaking Korean or Jack getting an appendix. It is us, the die hard fans of Lost, who search for details and notice every thing. I understand what AC is saying but letís not forget that these things donít sound so obvious to an average lost viewer. Not many lost viewers link paradox to Danís memory game.

So, yes, I think Stitch is right that this series didnít have much for an average viewer. However, as AC pointed out it did have quite a few things for us die hard fans. In my opinion, the writers should try to keep a balance between these two and I hope to see this in the next series.

As for the theory on Clair not being dead, I still believe that Clair is dead. Dead as in Christian dead. Not sure if it is different but remember that for Christen Sheppard there was no body to be found. Same as Clair.
I donít think Clair died in the blast though. She died when she met Christian and left with him, leaving Aaron behind. Miles, who has special abilities, maybe even sixth sense, knew that she is going to die, and hence his comment and weird looks. Katesawjack is right in that the Clair we saw in the cabin was very different than the Clair we knew before.

I am sure that when this is explained, it will be in a way that even an average viewer can also understand and accept. Just like what the constant episode did. An average viewer knows Christian is dead and still interacts with some the Losties. I am sure that if Clairís death is explained well there would be no more confusion and disappointment by any one, even Amy.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:00 pm

Sami, Christian had a body. This one.

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:04 pm

Also:

Episode 4.4 Eggtown - Dan and Charlotte play a memory game with cards where Dan's memory appears troublesome.

Episode 4.5 The Constant - Dan appears in Desmond's flashback, an event he doesn't remember, where Desmond remarks about how he doesn't protect his head from all the experiments he is doing. Dan also has a notebook of stuff he has forgotten about.

Episode 4.6 The Other Woman - Dan and Charlotte go to The Tempest where Charlotte discusses how Dan needs to remember what must be done to de-activate the toxin.

My point is that if people can't remember events from one episode to the next then that's nothing to do with the writers, and nor are they building stuff in for hardcore fans. That was week-on-week progression of Dan's memory issue.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:42 pm

I would be interested to know where the assumption that the average viewer is a casual viewer comes from. Not every viewer discusses theories on the net as we do, but i'm willing to bet the average viewer is not just "casual", but perhaps keep their theories and observations within their network of friends and family. Just a suggestion to throw out there Smile

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Irocz28 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:29 pm

You might be right there SP. I guess I made sort of a false assumption that casual and average are the same.

I guess we make up a small percentage of "die-hard" fans. Then there is a large percentage of average fans. They watch every week and maybe have a few theories or ideas rolling around in their head that they discuss with family members, or other "average fans". Then I guess would come the remaining "casual fans", who watch the show, might even miss an episode here and there, and primarily watch for the action and drama, not the small details.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Occam on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:37 pm

Ok, let's put it this way: LOST is not an easy show. It's not Friends --and, believe me, I loved that sitcom-- so the "average" viewer is bound to be different. Of course, someone who doesn't like "mind-puzzles" will drop LOST from S1E04 on.

But --oh, yes, there is always a "but"-- some people like answers, too. LOST is not giving that much in that front. So, what I call the "average viewer" is that kind of people who likes a good story, neat-and-clean, with no loose ends. Loose ends are good for a while, but this show has too many loose ends, and they are intertwined, so it's easy to lose interest.

Except for people like us, I guess. People who really like going into details. People with a plotting, conspiranoid mind ;-) That's not what I call "average".

Not that what I call "average viewer" cannot have their own opinions/theories about what is happening, of course they can. It's just I don't see them fretting about being right; if they are given a credible explanation, I think there's no need for them to be right about it.

In my opinion, an "average viewer" will easily forget details not because s/he has no brains. S/he will easily forget because s/he doesn't care. Because s/he wants the story to be told, not to be suppossed and later on proven for feasibility.

Does anyone remember the church Mr. Eko was bulding? What about it? It seemed big deal, at the time, right? He was working on it for several episodes, if I remember it well. Does anyone remember it?

No?

I'm guessing at least someone said 'no', and I think it's perfectly fine. That's because it had no impact whatsoever in the whole storyline. Of course, Eko's church may end up being a second example of "the cable Hurley found on the beach, yeah that one we forgot about until Season 3"... Very Happy

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by AngeloComet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:44 pm

I'm still waiting for Jack to form that army that he discussed with Ana Lucia to fight against The Others.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Occam on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:45 pm

DUDE! You read my mind! I was thinking of that as an example of "we forgot something big"... and I forgot about it while I was typing!

And no, I'm not joking...

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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Irocz28 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:47 pm

AngeloComet wrote:I'm still waiting for Jack to form that army that he discussed with Ana Lucia to fight against The Others.

HaHa. That will be Season 7. The Zombie Season.
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Re: Why Claire is Alive

Post by Lateralus on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:55 pm

All those little unanswered questions about the science team make us care about that character. Miles says 3.2 million and hears dead people, wtf? Charlotte finds a Dharma collar on a dead bear in the desert and now she is looking for her birthplace,wtf? Faraday has a strange relationship with Desmond, whos personal storyline has little to do with the 815'ers, and now they all missed their escape form the island before the wheel turn that Dan seemed to know would happen, wtf?

Hey, now we get three new on-island characters Sawyer can make knick-names for durring the whole next season. A red-head, a nerd, and an asian dude... Sawyers gonna have to start writing stuff down.

And on the Claire beastfeeding Aaron and Miles watching... Maybe he was astonished that Claire hadn't realized she was dead yet and was still trying to take care of the baby. He didn't give a hoot when Christian-spirit came by and Claire up and went away with him. Maybe he didn't stop her from going, because it was what she had to do, she had to accept that she was dead and go on.
Anyone watch that Ghosthunters on SciFi? Shows like that always have some "expert" that has to convince the spirit that it is dead and needs to pass on to the other side. Is that maybe what Miles did with Claire then?

Or,
CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I'll live.
MILES: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Maybe that was a forshadowing of him knowing that she would die.

Letting a ghost carry off a baby though, that is a little too weird to rationalize, even in the LOST universe.
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