Bentham and Walt

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Bentham and Walt

Post by Irocz28 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:41 pm

I just figured I would throw this topic out there as there hasn't been much discussion on why Bentham visited Walt.

Walt believes that his father is not dead and still on the island. This is evident as he asks "Like my Dad?" when Hurley says that they were trying to protect everyone that didn't come back.

Now if Bentham (Locke) did visit Walt then why didn't he tell him that his father is dead? He would obviously know by then that he did not survive the explosion and is not actually on the island.

Did he just not have the heart to tell him something as devastating as "your father is dead"? Locke was pretty close with Walt during season 1. It may not be out of the question that he just could not bring himself to tell his this.

Or can it be that Michael is still alive and on the island? I know that would be difficult given the fact that the island disappeared just after the explosion and the freighter was miles away at the time, but we have seen Michael survive some a huge car crash before. Although this might go against Christian telling him "you can go now". I took this as "you can die now", meaning the island will let him go and that he has served his purpose.

Or (my opinion) Locke may be telling Walt that his father is alive and well on the island as an incentive for them to go back and get him. I'm sure leaving Claire, Sawyer, Juliette, and all the others behind have been eating the O6 alive, so maybe Bentham just told Walt that Michael is still there just so they have one more reason to go back. Then they can take him (Bentham) back with them. Remember, Ben said they ALL had to go back.

Why else would he have visited Walt? I have no other thoughts. I am sure it was not just to say "Whats up" or anything like that. Any ideas?
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by TheHolyStickman on Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:02 am

That would be a good reason for Walt to want to go back, regardless of whether its true.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by GaryOC on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:52 pm

Yeah i'd go with your suggestion that Locke would lie to Walt in order to coax him back to the island. Maybe being leader of the others has made Locke as manipulative as Ben in that sense.

Kudos for points raised and argued though +1 (erm hold on.....lol)
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by jimbobajam on Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:17 pm

Locke must know that Michael is dead as he knew that he was on the freighter, as Ben had told him that he was his spy on the boat.
Therefore when Locke saw Keamy die I suppose he knew that it would explode and therefore Michael will be dead.

Very interesting point - what did Locke say to Walt? It'll make for an interesting scene if we see it in flashback. Or will it be a flash forward?

It'll be interesting to see what period of time is presented as the "present" in the following seasons. Will it be from when they were rescued or from the "future" where Ben was banished to and met up with them all?
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Hope on Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:49 am

wow that is a great question!! Now we will have two different presents so to speak on the show.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Lateralus on Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:13 pm

Remember that mobisode where Juliet showed Ben that Walt was killing the birds while being locked up inside room 23? Ben says "Its not me that wants him here, its Jacob".(or something to that effect)
Ben then sends Walt off the island and away from Jacob.
Maybe Walt is the true successor to Jacob. Ben did seem to have Jacob trapped somehow and getting rid of Walt would remove that competition for Jacobs attention.
If things went wrong durring Lockes term as mayor, maybe "Benipulating" Walt back to the island could be Johns way of making things right.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Fate on Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:51 pm

I kinda thought of it as not only the island is moving but everything inside the bubble. This includes the smaller island and the water. As Juliet could see the freighter smoking and burning this would mean the freighter is inside the bubble and moved with the island. This would also mean that if Jin and/or michael jumped of the boat they would be moved too and could just swim to the island....

Atleast thats how I saw it
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Lojozz on Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:59 pm

Fate, given that they needed to follow the bearing to get to the freighter that suggests to me that it was outside the bubble and so would not have moved.

If the freighter had moved as well (had it not blown up) then it would negate the reason for moving the island.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Fate on Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:20 pm

Yea but that was kind of the reason the boat was moving right? to get closer to the island. Who says that they didnt reach that? Maybe they moved into the bubble but Dan didnt want to take any risk and Ben wasn't aware of the fact the boat moved into the zone.

Don't take away my last hope that Jin is still alive Lojozz. DON'T Mad Wink
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Lojozz on Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:58 pm

Sorry Fate, don't think they made it? If the freighter was inside the bubble then surely the heli would have been inside the bubble too.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Fate on Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:03 pm

Yea you are correct there. Shame, really!
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:47 pm

I think the writers left themselves some options as far as Jin goes. They can still play him off as dead or alive if they want. You can also say the same for Michael given his ability to elude death in the past. Even Claire, albeit very difficult to explain, might be dead. It will be interesting to see which routes the writers take with these characters.


Last edited by Irocz28 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:55 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add on)
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Irocz28 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:52 pm

Also, the freighter was visible from the island during the season finale, right? Even when it exploded the burning wreckage was visible from the island. It was not visible in past episodes. To me, that says that it was inside that "bubble" that you are all referring to.

Ok, i see Fate already brought this up. Good thinking. I agree.


Last edited by Irocz28 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Hope on Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:41 am

I don't know who they will play this and I am intrigued by it. The only way it makes sense is to have the freighter and the dingy that Miles was on were inside the bubble.

I also want to say that since Michael couldn't die, then maybe Jin can't die and the island may have protected him by throwing him off of the exploding boat into the bubble.

But I don't know any other reason for Benthem to visit Walt other than Michael is alive. Or he was thinking that even Walt needs to go back to the island and Benthem said the Michael was alive to get Walt excited about going back.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by AngeloComet on Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:33 am

If The Freighter turns out to be inside the bubble then it's a cheat.

It's true The Freighter moved closer to the Island (about 5 miles off its coast, I think - the point was made about the electronic equipment unable to detect the reef so that was as close as it could safely get).

So the helicopter flies to The Freighter, re-fuels, then takes off, then The Freighter explodes. Then (this is the important bit) the helicopter flies back to the Island. It doesn't go anywhere else. It heads for the Island. But before it gets there, the Island disappears.

That, for me, puts The Sunken Freighter behind the helicopter, and the helicopter didn't make it to the Island 'disappearance radius'. Therefore both helicopter and Freighter 'sinking zone' are outside of the 'disappearance radius' of the Island.

I expect Faraday was in the 'disappearance radius' (in fact he almost certainly has to be) but, as I stated, if Jin even made it off The Freighter he should no way have been 'vanished' to where the Island went or else it's a cheat.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Lojozz on Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:36 pm

My take with a crappy diagram.

For the freighter to be inside the bubble the helicopter would also have to be.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:24 pm

Just a measurement observation...the smaller island with the Hydra station was about a mile+ offshore and it was about 1-2 miles across so that would put the "bubble" about a minimum of 2-3 miles offshore if it was asymmetrical.

If the bubble was symmetrical/spherical which one would have to assume it was, then the freighter, the zodiac AND the helicopter should have been inside it and should have gone with the island.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by AngeloComet on Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:46 pm

Let's keep it simple.

The Freighter was furthest away from the Island.

The helicopter was second furthest away.

Almost certainly, Faraday and his raft were next.

Then the Hydra Island.

Then the Island itself.

The Island, the Hydra Island and Faraday were all in close enough proximity to disappear. The helicopter and Freighter were not.

That is all.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Irocz28 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:08 pm

Could it have been that the helicopter was above the bubble?
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Lojozz on Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:23 pm

Would that not mean that the helicopter had then left the bubble at the wrong bearing?
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Irocz28 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:56 pm

Yeah i guess it would Lojozz. Good point.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Fate on Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:08 am

I can't remember this part clearly but when the Island disappears. Can the people in the chopper still see the freighter smoke? Juliet could. But when they scout around to look for the island you see no smoke.

I thought of the fact that it was flying above the bubble too. Who knows if the freighter was JUST out of the bubble, the chopper had to fly up over the bubble first to enter if later on?

Yes it keeps getting weirder Razz Sorry I'm focussing my hope on the freighter or atleast Jin, moving too.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by StitchExp626 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:01 pm

Good point the smoke from the freighter also disappears when the island disappears. Good catch!

Stitch
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by Irocz28 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:36 pm

Also, when Julliette and Sawyer look at the smoke from the explosion, there is no helicopter in sight. Maybe this means that the Island and the Freighter were in the bubble, but the helicopter was not?

But, if this was the case, then why was the island visible from the helicopter just before it disapeered? This would mean that the helicopter was also within the bubble and also should have disapeered. Argh! I have a headache!

I just think it would be cool if the opening scene of next seasons Lost begins with the new location of the island, with a blown apart freighter in the middle of nowhere, kind of like the Black Rock.
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Re: Bentham and Walt

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:39 pm

Wasnt the scene of Juliette and Sawyer on the beach before the island disapeared? Im sure it was. In which case they may not have been able to see the copter from that distance but could see the smoke as it was rising up. The remains of the freighter definitely moved with the island though I think.....I have to go and watch that episode again now lol. It is a puzzler.

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