Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

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Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:42 am

I have learned there are many colours to patriotism. Some are dark, ugly and rancid. Others are bright, radient and essential.

I have personally never felt the touch of patriotism, until I moved to Wales 4 years ago. I was raised in a small sea-side tourist town on the South East coast of England, and the only patriotism I ever saw in others was the wrong kind. The kind that turns football fans into violent racists. That turns the BNP into a viable option for those concerned with the loss of thier values. I was never proud to be British or English, it was just where I was born. I refused to align myself with bigots and fascists and British Bulldog Pride. When people talked about National pride, my ideas on it were jaded and I refused to take part in it.

Then I moved to Wales, and suddenly I saw another kind of national pride. A patriotic attitude that deserved pride. I havnt quite figured out what the secret is, but the Welsh are extremely proud of thier country, their roots and heritage. But they carry this pride without the execlusivity that can all too often turn patriotism ugly. There is something beautiful about the way a Welsh person will talk about thier community, with true pride, conviction and dedication, and not a trace of anger or fear towards those that were not born there.

I am jealous......I wish I had been born here so I could share in the same pride, as I have always felt that missing from my life. Pride in where you come from should be something that makes you feel a part of something bigger, that your birth there contributed to the community and it is as much a part of you as you are of it. Something to be celebrated and shared, not frowned on and ruined by the PC brigade, or taken to the extreme by racists and fascists. Something colourful.

/end of late night ramblings

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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by JWLost on Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:04 am

Jax,

I totally agree with where you are coming from. I grew up in a medium sized rural area in Western Pennsylvania, which is full of hicks who are racist, intolerant of minorities and different lifestyles and are very much uneducated. Luckily, I pulled myself out of that area at 18 and moved to New York City for college. Two weeks after I got to NYC is when the Trade Centers were hit and the day that America changed forever. The overwhelming pride that followed those attacks were outrageous. What surprised me the most was how Middle Easterners weren't beaten with sticks in the street and shot afterwards. New Yorkers were tolerant enough to realize that those people are in America for a reason and that reason was for a better life. Now, in Western Pa after September 11th the hate towards Muslims and Middle Easterns flew threw the roof. Part of this was because flight 91 (I think it was 91) crashed about a half hour from my hometown into that field.

The difference between the two places really led me to believe that America isn't so bad after all. The pure heart and loyalty that us New Yorkers felt after the attacks was great. In a way, I said that the attacks were a blessing in disguise for New Yorkers because the city really turned around and people became more friendly, crime dropped and the equality of everyone was amazing. However, that only lasted about 3 years max. Then, New York started back to the old ways... people being unfriendly and rude. I think that had to do with the economic downfall we faced post-9/11.

I've come to realize that it isn't so much the overall thought process of the U.S, but instead, it is the thought process of the generation of my parents.... and moreso their parents that still lingers. Today, with America going the way it is going, I can only see that stigma of hate towards other cultures rising due to the Middle East and Asia basically taking over our economy. I am afraid that, as tolerant and understanding that my generation is, they too will turn.

America was born on the values of each citizen and today I think that is majorly hypocritical for the most part. I'm not saying America is bad, not by any means... I mean, we are more free than a lot of the world's countries out there and I know that all countries have their own form of racism and intolerance as well.

I think, the reason that you like Wales so much is because it is a smaller country that isn't in the world market for massive gain and power. I think smaller countries often tend to be more humble and easy going and keep to themselves which means their level of pride is deserved. They work for what they have and they are proud of what they have. Countries like America, the UK and hell, even China and Japan... they are all in it for globalization and the power. The bigger and more ambitious the country, the more social problems that will arise. Once again, this all goes back to my theory of moderation.

I like these philosophical rants, they take my mind off of trying to figure out how I'm going to explain what smokey is in my scripts.... ha.
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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by JWLost on Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:08 am

Oh, and... I wanted to make it clear that I don't think that my statement: "it is the thought process of the generation of my parents.... and moreso their parents that still lingers," is completely accurate to EVERYONE in those generation groupings. I know there are some of you that come to this site who are old enough to be my parents and who are very tolerant and not racist/judgemental. It was a broad observation and I know that it isn't entirely true those age groups. However, and I think that those of you who are in those generations would agree with me to a certain point that there is a certain degree of truth behind that comment though.

(I don't want to get shunned for my jibjab up there, so take it easy on me!)
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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by StitchExp626 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:26 am



Nationalism Australian style

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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by JWLost on Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:44 am

Stitch, I didn't see anything about Foster's Beer or Steve Irwin. That is what us Americans think when we think of Australian patriotism. All though, that video did hit the nail on the head with kangaroos!
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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by katesawjack on Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:50 am

That was great Stitch. I just this month went to Liberty State Park while on vacation. It was the first time to actually see her. I am so glad I finally made it there.
America by Neil Diamond

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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by StitchExp626 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:15 am

I liked the video, very stirring and patriotic.

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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:23 am

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
– Edward Abbey


Patriotism can be both beautiful and horrible.

It is beautiful when a small group of lost pilots face near certain death but stick to their mission and change history in the WWII battle of Midway.

It is horrible when it grows into nationalistic fever and is used to fuel that same war.

It is beautiful when I think of my father from Italy and my mother from Germany, both part of the wave of immigration in the early 1900's, working with millions of other Americans to build a strong nation.

It is horrible when current generations (themselves, children of immigrants) scream racial slurs at the current immigrants and clamor for the government to close the borders to keep out foreigners.

It is beautiful when Millions of citizens rally around their leaders after a horrific attack on their nation.

It is horrible when the leaders take that support and twist it to suit their own agendas.

There is much to love and hate about all nations. But above all else, a patriot must never be afraid to speak out against the wrongs that their nations does as strongly as they boast about the just accomplisments of that same nation.

Here are some quotes on the subject by people more learned than I will ever be.

Every patriot believes his country better than any other country . . . In its active manifestation—it is fond of killing—patriotism would be well enough if it were simply defensive, but it is also aggressive . . . Patriotism deliberately and with folly aforethought subordinates the interests of a whole to the interests of a part . . . Patriotism is fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave and blind as a stone."
– Ambrose Bierce


No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.
~ Barbara Ehrenreich


Beware of the leader, who strikes the war drum in order to transfer the citizens into patriotic glow, patriotism is indeed a double-sided sword. It makes the blood so boldly, like it constricts the intellect. And if the striking of the war drum reached a fiebrige height and the blood is cooking and hating, and the intellect is dismissed, the leader doesn't need to reject the citizens rights. The citizens, cought by anxiety and blinded through patriotism, will subordinate all their rights to the leader and this even with happy courage. Why do I know that? I know it, because this is, what I did. And I am Gajus Julius Cäsar.
– Gajus Julius Cäsar–
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Re: Somewhere, over the patriotic rainbow.....

Post by TheHolyStickman on Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:29 pm

I myself don't have any patroitic feelings towards England. I just don't feel that my country is better than any of the others and that if I went to another country there wouldn't be much difference except the weather and language.

One paticular thing that makes me feel un-patriotic is the English football league. Mainly the premiership. Take a look at ChelseaFC's eleven regualr players.

1 Cech
Czech
2 Ivanovic
Serbia and Montenegro
3 A Cole England
5 Essien Ghana
6 Carvalho Portugal
8 Lampard England
9 Di Santo Argentina
10 J Cole England
11 Drogba Ivory Coast
12 Obi Nigeria
13 Ballack Germany
15 Malouda France
There are twelve regular Chelsea player and only three are English. 1/4. I can see how this might be taken in the wrong way but I have no problem with the fact that people from other nationalities are playing here, its that they are playing for a football club named after where it is. It's not Chelsea football club its 'Players that a Russian billionaire has given the money to the manager to buy from all the corners of the world'. Football is not a game, its a buisness now. There is so much money involved now that it can't be called a game nor can it be called beautiful.

If you want to see which part of Britain is the best at football, then have Chelsea pick players from that area of London and Man Utd and players from Manchester. The only buying of players should be between Everton and Liverpool, Manchester Utd and Machester City, All London clubs.

Ok so I've gone a bit off track here, but my point is that I don't feel patriotitsm because I don't see what makes us different, what makes us British.
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