Sarah Palin

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:02 pm

They all pander. Both sides are looking for votes. It's called politics. Obama chose Biden to make up for his lack of experience in foreign policy and about everything else. My view is that both parties are driving us sheeple over the cliff... the difference being that the Right is going the speed limit and the Left has it floored.

As far as experience goes, Palin isn't running for the highest office in the land. She has a governing record (something Obama doesn't have) of fighting corruption in her own political party while Obama entrenched himself in the Chicago political machine. Here is a piece on the contrast in experience both brings to the table. The fact that she less concerned about making friends and more concerned about doing the right thing is refreshing.

During the DNC people finally got some crumbs in terms of what the slogan "Change" really means and the Dems again proved the adage that the more things "change", the more they stay the same. Their idea of "change" is mainly about redistribution of wealth (socialism at best, communism at worst) and that government knows best in deciding how you live your life.

I plan on voting for real change.


Last edited by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:04 pm

Nice pic Blonde. Wink

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:07 pm

I'm guessing no one will actually click on the link i provided so I'll post the piece here:

What Palin does for McCain, and to Obama
posted at 11:20 am on August 29, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

With multiple media outlets confirming now that Governor Sarah Palin will indeed join the Republican ticket as John McCain’s running mate, McCain has clearly chosen to play offense rather than defense. Instead of a safe choice, such as closest runner-up Mitt Romney or genial Everyman Tim Pawlenty, McCain took some risk with a relative newcomer to national politics. Palin will inject risk, excitement, controversy, and an unexpected historic note to the Republican convention.

First, though, let’s assess the risk. Palin has served less than two years as Governor of Alaska, which tends to eat into the experience message on which McCain has relied thus far. At 44, she’s younger than Barack Obama by three years. She has served as a mayor and as the Ethics Commissioner on the state board regulating oil and natural gas, for a total of eight years political experience before her election as governor. That’s also less than Obama has, with seven years in the Illinois legislature and three in the US Senate.

However, the nature of the experience couldn’t be more different. Palin spent her entire political career crusading against the political machine that rules Alaska — which exists in her own Republican party. She blew the whistle on the state GOP chair, who had abused his power on the same commission to conduct party business. Obama, in contrast, talked a great deal about reform in Chicago but never challenged the party machine, preferring to take an easy ride as a protegé of Richard Daley instead.

Palin has no formal foreign-policy experience, which puts her at a disadvantage to Joe Biden. However, in nineteen months as governor, she certainly has had more practical experience in diplomacy than Biden or Obama have ever seen. She runs the only American state bordered only by two foreign countries, one of which has increasingly grown hostile to the US again, Russia.

And let’s face it — Team Obama can hardly attack Palin for a lack of foreign-policy experience. Obama has none at all, and neither Obama or Biden have any executive experience. Palin has almost over seven years of executive experience.

Politically, this puts Obama in a very tough position. The Democrats had prepared to launch a full assault on McCain’s running mate, but having Palin as a target creates one large headache. If they go after her like they went after Hillary Clinton, Obama risks alienating women all over again. If they don’t go after her like they went after Hillary, he risks alienating Hillary supporters, who will see this as a sign of disrespect for Hillary.

For McCain, this gives him a boost like no other in several different ways. First, the media will eat this up. That effectively buries Obama’s acceptance speech and steals the oxygen he needs for a long-term convention bump. A Romney or Pawlenty pick would not have accomplished that.

Second, Palin will re-energize the base. She’s not just a pro-life advocate, she’s lived the issue herself. That will attract the elements of the GOP that had held McCain at a distance since the primaries and provide positive motivation for Republicans, rather than just rely on anti-Democrat sentiment to get them to the polls.

Third, and I think maybe most importantly, Palin addresses the energy issue better and more attuned to the American electorate than maybe any of the other three principals in this election. Even beyond her efforts to reform the Oil and Natural Gas Commission, she has demonstrated her independence from so-called “Big Oil” while promoting domestic production. She brings instant credibility to the ticket on energy policy, and reminds independents and centrists that the Obama-Biden ticket offers nothing but the same excuses we’ve heard for 30 years.

Finally, based on all of the above, McCain can remind voters who has the real record of reform. Obama talks a lot about it but has no actual record of reform, and for a running mate, he chose a 35-year Washington insider with all sorts of connections to lobbyists and pork. McCain has fought pork, taken real political risks to fight undue influence of lobbyists, and he picked an outsider who took on her own party — and won.

This is change you can believe in, and not change that amounts to all talk. McCain changed the trajectory of the race today by stealing Obama’s strength and turning it against him. Obama provided that opening by picking Biden as his running mate, and McCain was smart enough to take advantage of the opening.

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by blonde on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:13 pm

Shamballa wrote:I'm guessing no one will actually click on the link i provided so I'll post the piece here:


I was going to suggest that Shamorama. LOL.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:17 pm

blonde wrote:
Lateralus wrote:“…I really hope American women aren’t dumb enough to vote for her just because she has boobs too.”


What an innapropriate, insulting, and ignorant statement.No

I think it's safe to say American women are smart enough to make an educated choice Mr. Ferguson.

It's bad enough that American celebrity air-heads feel compelled to put in their two cents let alone a comedian who received his citizenship on Feb. 1st, 2008!

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by TheHolyStickman on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:59 pm

MyStarbuckHatesLost wrote:EEEEEEK! 666 posts! The number of the Beast.

Actually, if any of us British guys and gals have watched QI then you'll know that the number of the beast is actally 616. But it was changed for some reason, can't remember what it was. Lots of Bus companaies changed their numbers if they were 666 but one changed their number to 616, unlucky!

Anyway thats all I have to impart on this converation politics are for people who have spent more than 13 years on the 3rd rock from the sun (ls also a good program.)
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by vincentthedog on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:12 pm

Problems with Obama getting little to no play...
He is the first nominated to refuse to show his birth certificate.
Ok why. Your parents put you as Muslum so what it wasn`t your choice.
2nd he has a half brother who lives off a dollar a month.
Oboma says almost as much in his book but what has he done for the man?
3rdly his records of involvment with a known terorist bomber at a public Chicago collage are no longer public. What are we hidding there. For a man who talks about a transparent presidency he sure seems to cover a lot up.
And how about that debate in a church moderated by a minister.
Bad enough they did it with all that church and state being seperate but Obama`s answer to...When does life begin?.. Obama" well um oh um well that question is above my pay grade, hehe,lol um no but really well ummmm. Come on man you must have expected that question the fact that he wasnt prepared scares me more than all that non experience. Mcain to the same question " at conception" like it or not its a dirrect answer.

Oh we are talking about the hot librarian my bad. Good looking. check. Relates to common people ( has a 16 year old pregnent daughter) check. Has little governing experience. check. Minority. check. Soooo what is the difference between Sarah and Obama.
Is middle America ready for a black man or a woman as a canadate?
That is the question I belive will decide this election. I do think Sarah will get some of Hillary votes but when she talked about breaking the cracks and bringing down the ceiling I cringed.
Right now I`m undecided I will wait for the debates.
i would have voted for Hillary.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:14 pm

Its been all over the UK news today that Sarah Palins teenage (unmarried) daughter is pregnant at just 17. I have no issue with that as I was unmarried and pregnant at 17 myself....however....it seems Mrs Palin preaches no sex before marriage among other right wing religious ideas, so I am interested to see how she responds to this.

This whole thing reminds me of when Blairs Labour came into power and he immediately employed many women into high positions within the party. This was a political move based not on what these women could bring to the table, but purely on the image he wanted to create for the party. Its all about putting the right minorities into the right spot lights. I find that patronising and an insult to the many women who fought for our rights to vote personally, and hope that the US isnt doing the same.

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by blonde on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:24 pm

SunburnedPenguin wrote:Its been all over the UK news today that Sarah Palins teenage (unmarried) daughter is pregnant at just 17. I have no issue with that as I was unmarried and pregnant at 17 myself....however....it seems Mrs Palin preaches no sex before marriage among other right wing religious ideas, so I am interested to see how she responds to this.

From Palin:
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. "Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family"

From Obama:
"Let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits," Obama said, "and people's children are especially off limits." This shouldn't be part of our politics," he continued, "It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor, or her
potential performance as a vice president. "And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he said. "You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off limits."

I think that pretty much puts babygate to rest.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by vincentthedog on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:25 pm

SunnyP, If she handles this right it should work in her favor. Her party might preach abstinence but they also preach family values ( she will stand by her daughter and help raise the baby as a family) and they preach pro life ( what a courageous young women, she could have taken the easy way out and saved her mother the shame). It all depends on how they spin it.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by vincentthedog on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:26 pm

OK thanks blonde looks like they can both spin for themselves.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:30 pm

it seems Mrs Palin preaches no sex before marriage among other right wing religious ideas, so I am interested to see how she responds to this.
Sarah Palin didn't make the choice, her teenage daughter did. Sarah's beliefs had nothing to do with it. I think the real story is that they are supporting and loving their daughter despite her poor judgment.

The children of Politicians should be off limits, period. Even the Obamamessiah thinks so. It's despicable that the left is making this an issue.

That's how I would respond. Smile

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by vincentthedog on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:37 pm

Shamballa although I am not a parent I do belive its desicable.
However nothing is off limits people/media will grab on to anything if it makes their side look better.
Family has always been an issue. Bill Clintons brother. The Bush twins. Heck G.W. himself once apon a time. We elect a first family and todays media has made them akin to the Bradgaline`s and Lohan`s. It is what it is.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by blonde on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:38 pm

So this is what this race for the President of the free world has come down to? Debating about the sex-life of Sarah Palin's daughter?

This is news because ....?

So, Bill Clinton using a White House intern like a cheap whore in the Oval Office and lying about it under oath: not a problem. Sarah Palins 17 year old daughter becoming pregnant and marrying the father and finishing high school: a huge character issue. Comical!!
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by tracker on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:45 pm

Well said Blonde!

Just as a reset button, both sides are spinning their brains out. I don't believe 75% of what the say.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Lateralus on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:52 pm

Yes, of course assuming all women will vote for her just because shes a woman too is wrong. Thats like assuming every African-American is voting for Obama just cuz hes the black dude. But there are a lot of dumb people who vote. Remember all those people who voted for Bush(twice) because he was the "guy you could have a beer with"?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/3/11/embarrassingly-stupid-americans-one-in-five-believes-sun-revolves-around-earth.aspx

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=68642.0

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/story/510249.html

http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2008/08/first-look-at-sarah-palins-religious.html

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ab-usliberals&tid=17425


And bringing her daughter into the would be unfair if the Repubs havn't been such "holier than thou, Jesus loves us more", anit-abortion pro-abstinence. But then again its not like she was arrested for dealing crack or anything. From what ive heard, Palin is all about teaching abstinence. Just "not doing it", instead of accepting the fact that yes, teenagers are humans and are going to screw around, and they need to know the safe way to do it. So chances are that girl wasn't on the pill, and didn't know what a comdom was or what it was for. Did her mom fail to teach her that? Dunno. Does the Alaskan public school system teach sex-ed? nope.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1320417.aspx
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by vincentthedog on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:52 pm

tracker wrote:Well said Blonde!

Indeed. If Bill is any indication then Mcain made a smart move and this could endear her with the American people.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:26 pm

Im sorry, but I have just learned she not only wants all schools to teach Creationism, she abdacates the use of guns. She is also very much involved with oil drilling (Alaska has lots).

I smell a massive fish and although you could say it has nothing to do with me as I am in the UK, I think she is dangerous.

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:14 pm

vincentthedog wrote:Shamballa although I am not a parent I do belive its desicable.
However nothing is off limits people/media will grab on to anything if it makes their side look better.
Family has always been an issue. Bill Clintons brother. The Bush twins. Heck G.W. himself once apon a time. We elect a first family and todays media has made them akin to the Bradgaline`s and Lohan`s. It is what it is.

Sad but true Vincent, and the Main Stream media has become increasingly partisan. Sensationalism is the name of the game. Watching the nightly news is like watching Hard Copy, Current Affair, and Jerry Springer all rolled up into one.

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Shamballa on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:26 pm

SunburnedPenguin wrote:Im sorry, but I have just learned she not only wants all schools to teach Creationism, she abdacates the use of guns. She is also very much involved with oil drilling (Alaska has lots).

I smell a massive fish and although you could say it has nothing to do with me as I am in the UK, I think she is dangerous.

The flip side of that would be a liberal who wants only evolution taught in schools, would ban all firearms, and is against any form of energy that affects the environment even in the slightest way. Equally as dangerous in my book.

But here is the difference...

I'll have to check on this one but my guess is that Palin is for teaching both Creationism (most likely intelligent design) AND the theory of Evolution (because it is JUST a theory) which denotes choice. I'm guessing she is also all for background checks before issuing gun licenses and realizes that its people that kill people not guns. I'm sure she is for the responsible use of resources and environmentally sound ways of attaining energy.

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by Lateralus on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:10 pm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm

Big 'ol list on Sarah Palin there so we won't have to guess.

And since when was Creationism cold hard fact? And who's creationism? Hindu? Shinto? Cherokee? Bantu? Oh, yeah, i forgot, the only one that is real, judeo-christian.
I went to Catholic school all my life, and even there they didn't hammer in creationism and blow over evolution. They taught science in science class and religion in religion class. And even in that class they taught you that you have to read the bible with a grain of salt.

You can tell your kids were all decendants from the great sea serpent that split into 1000 peices scattering all forms of life across the surface of the planet 30 years ago for all i care, but it has absolutly no place in a public state funded school.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by SunburnedPenguin on Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:17 pm

Agreed Lateralus!

Even if both creationism and evolution are taught, if they are both presented as theory it is confusing and well....wrong. Evolution is not really a theory when you think of the mountains of evidence, which science is all about....evidence. Creationism is just a religious idea and while there may be many people that believe it, it is dangerous to present it as scientific theory.

We need to move on as a race and teach our kids what is real. May aswell teach them father christmas is real and hangs out with the tooth fairy if creationsim is going to be taught in any sense other than in RE.

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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:50 pm

Okay, I read heard this and the hypocrisy of the statement infuriated me.

In regards to her daughter's prgnancy, the Palin family rleased this written statement;
“Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support.”

Did you catch the important part?
Here it is:
"We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby..."
In other words, "we're proud she didn't choose to have an abortion..."
Meaning if she chose not to have the baby, she would have had it aborted and the parents would have supported here.

The statement was not saying keep (i.e.: givie it up for adoption) the baby but Have the baby (i.e.: carry the pregnancy to term.

This is the Republican lie at it's finest. Palin is a staunch anti-choice supporter. She even opposes abortion in the case of rape or incest yet the choice is a viable one for her daughter.

I don't care if you support abortion rights or not. The question is who makes the choice-those involved or the government. And masking the issue with euphamisms like "pro-life" is just a load of b.s. it is abortion rights. if a woman cannot choose to reproduce or not, fundamental control over her own body, then all of our rights are endangered.

The more I learn about this woman the more I dislike her and the less I respect McCain for making such an obviously cynical and ham-fisted choice just in the hopes of appealing to women voters.

And for those who even try to compare Obama's experience to Palin's give me a frakkin break. I have more foreign relations experience than her. I've been to a total of 27 other countries (tougher to do if you don't live in Europe) she has been to 1. I've held a passport for over 20 years, she just got her's. Christ, she's not even been to Canada and it borders her state!
Does that mean I'm more qualified to be VP than her? Hell yes it does. But John didn't ask me so I'll stick with Lost thoerizing for now.
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by JWLost on Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:04 pm

I love all the Sarah Palin hate going on in here, lol. Seriously though, I think that McCain deserves every bit of anti-Palin he is getting.

Like SAOY said, it was a ham-fisted decision to gain women supporters. What I don't understand is why he didn't pick a more viable female Republican such as oh... lets say....Lisa Murkowski who is the Republican Senator from Alaska and has decent experience and a good head on her shoulders and a wide background on energy issues.... but she is considered "moderate republican" so I guess that vetoes her nomination.

Or, how about, Olympia Snowe from Maine... you want experience, this lady's got it!

Or, how about, Elizabeth Dole from North Carolina? I think that the repubs would have liked that nomination... hell, I may have liked that nomination.

Hell, I would have been more satisfied if he picked my mother... She has more experience than Palin.

He picked the most obscure candidate with the biggest history of scandal and lack of experience.... really, McCain... is it because she is young and pretty (she was runner up Ms. Alaska, after all)?
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Re: Sarah Palin

Post by MyStarbuckHatesLost on Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:10 pm

Okay,
On the experience issue.
One of the keys to success is to surround yourself with people who are smarter than you in the areas you lack.
It augments you and strengthens you. It helps you make descisions becasue you gain the experience and knowledge of those who are supporting you.
What does Palin bring to McCain? Nothing. McCain supporters can jump on her band wagon all they want but they know in their hearts that there were many, many more people who were more qulified than her that McCain could have chosen.

Let me drop this scenario on you: What if President McCain dies two months into his first term and we now are faced with Palin as pres. Are you comfortabe with that? If you answered yes then you are either not paying attention to reality, a liar or utterly blinded by partisanship.

Joe Biden would not have been my first choice for VP but nobody can present the argument that Palin is a better choice without flushing their own credibility right down the toilet.
McCain could have chosen Christy Todd Whitman, Condolezza Rice or even Elizabeth Dole and still been ahead of the curve. But he didn't.
I don't care that she is a woman.
I don't care that she is a mom.
I don't care that her teen daughter is pregnant.
I don't care that she has gone hunting.
I don't care that she is young.
I don't care that she is a attractive.
I do care that she is supports the mixing of church and state.
I do care that she is the subject of an ongoing ethics investigation.
I do care that she is opposes a woman's right to choose.
I do care that she is shockingly inexperienced.

Face it, if she was a guy with the same resume' she'd still be hearding moose in Alaska.
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Re: Sarah Palin

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