oldest debate in history

freewill versus determinism.
science versus religion
man versus god
lost versus found


add on if u wish

oh by the way i did here the oldest philosophical debate known to man is freewill versus determinism..

That is the second oldest debate...the oldest is the chicken or the egg debate.

could you not give the above the philosophical backround of freewill v determinism...u know if you boiled it down...

You mean like the chicken has free-will but the egg is inevitable?

in terms of what comes first....as a philosophy determinism and freewill are arguably dependent on each other for definition purposes but i would claim to know what proper determinism is you would have to have felt truly free at some point....a utopian idea for me....and if you had felt what it was like to know you have a path and you r on your way to meet a predestined destiny....i would argue freewill came first......we were lost once....now we r found....or u can say.....we were once innocent now we r corrupted by....knowledge......sounds a bit like a lost backstory or 2 to me....

to pee or not to pee, for me, is the oldest debate in history, especially after lots of beers, a shakesperian dilemma of the highest degree especially after a lot of beers.

but in terms of this philosophical conundrum, I say cogito ergo sum and further I quote:

"How little you mortals understand time. Must you be so linear Jean-Luc?....THAT is the exploration which awaits you....Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." (Q to Picard in 'All Good Things')

I think Dharma have been screwin around with the possibilities of existence!

Solar-Out.

I feel like Homer Simpson........DOH!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmBEER

Tracker,

"Wanders city streets trying to pry open manhole covers. If he can’t, he kneels down, pounds on the metal and screams “This is my destiny! This is my destiny!”

even as i goto sleep in a minute, that is a vision thats going to dominate my REM state!! and having just read your Homer Simpson post, my vision is solidifed in a visual way!!

I got off lightly on that post as simply 'chilling out & having some dinner' which is more close to the truth than the truth is!

hope you don't mind my mirth on starbucks lucid descriptions, but you got to admit, they are funny and there was just something 'Omega Man', 'I am Legend' and 'Esape from New York' about your one!

Oh Solarchap, U crack us all up

lonewolf wrote:could you not give the above the philosophical backround of freewill v determinism...u know if you boiled it down...

Was that a boiled egg joke?

solarchap wrote:Tracker,

"Wanders city streets trying to pry open manhole covers. If he can’t, he kneels down, pounds on the metal and screams “This is my destiny! This is my destiny!”

even as i goto sleep in a minute, that is a vision thats going to dominate my REM state!! and having just read your Homer Simpson post, my vision is solidifed in a visual way!!

I got off lightly on that post as simply 'chilling out & having some dinner' which is more close to the truth than the truth is!

hope you don't mind my mirth on starbucks lucid descriptions, but you got to admit, they are funny and there was just something 'Omega Man', 'I am Legend' and 'Esape from New York' about your one!

Don't mind at all. I think you have me down correctly

I think MSHL should be a comedy writer.

got me wondering if it is a fair question to ask if any of the users of this forum, about this particular subject matter... "LOST"...if any one here has felt the touch of destiny in their lives?

Oldest debate in history. Its easy. DHARMA Vs Others.

pepsi v coka cola
ferrari v porsche
lotr v harry potter
rock chick v girl next door

Who? What girl next door? Tell me!!!!!!!!!

haha only kidding

Determination. Lets say that I was determined to buy a house, but had no money and bad credit. I would then have to take steps in order to buy a house. Wouldn't free will dictate what steps I take? So then free will is needed in order to have determination, right?

To lonewolf, Have you ever read lonewolf by gary chalk? It`s a series about the last 'medival jedi" It`s also a chose your own adventure destiny type. And yes i have had dreams that acctually have come true years later making me question my own destiny.

Don't forget Good vs Evil or as Billy Joel might put it, "better to laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" right?

Curiously, the primary antagonist to date -- Ben -- is a person to whom we are unable to ascribe good or evil motives yet...as we are not sure of his motives (nor many others). Everytime I am convinced he truly is one evil little weasel, his warnings and admonitions seem to come true, and I have to wonder if this is really all for some greater good.

By the same token, our major protagonists -- Jack and Locke -- have certainly been complex characters. Locke ostensibly has already led one man to his death, killed a woman with a knife in the back, and is in a word - selfish.

Jack, well, we are least led to believe that he may have legitimately left most of the survivors on the island in an uncharacteristically selfish turn -- hence, his need to get the story straight on the flight back and his need "to go back" to the island later in the show.

I'm a big fan of character development...and good vs. evil is right up there..but who is good and who is evil? Hell, three of my favorite characters (Kate, Sayid and Sawyer) all murdered & tortured & conned people prior to even getting to the island. Jin was essentially a mercenary, Sun an adulterer, jack was a rat and so on and so forth. And these are the "good" guys?

Good vs. evil is also seen in light vs. dark, black vs. white, etc.

Then again, TO BE or NOT TO BE has to be right up there all time.

Nature VS. Nurture

Yep.

something v nothing

no man needs nothing...

i tell you a man gets lonely ...from of mice and men as quoted by ben

lonewolf, I just wanted to tell you , that your avatar makes me grin every time I look at it.

I don't think this one, is even debatable !
Behind every good man , stands a good woman.

no woman v no cry?

could have a beer instead...i dunno

cheers KSJ...