Big clue in pilot is clear... S4 Finale

Firstly, at the end of last night's finale when Jack and Ben are talking, Jack reveals that he feels guilty for leaving. He says Bentham/Locke told him that since they left lots of bad things have happened on the island. I believe these "bad thing" are directly tied to having the island.

Secondly, we finally see how Ben cuts his arm. He fell of the steps and cut it just before zapping the island and himself up up and away. (Well i guess the island would be down down and away.) Ben then lands in the middle of the desert in his coat with a freshly cut arm.

I think this same thing will happen to Jack and may be how the show ends. When Jack returns to the island he will eventually move it back in hopes of making everything better - or for some other crazy reason that will pop up in the next two seasons. He will cut his arm, just as Ben did, Zap the island and himself away and suddenly appear as he did in the first season pilot episode - dazed and confused, fresh cut on his arm, no bamboo sticks thrust through him.

What ya think?

yeah puchita i have been convinced for a while that the pilot is Jack's second trip to the island and I think you may be onto something here. good spot

Me too! I'm just waiting for the pilot episode to be Jack returning to the island a second time. When he runs to the beach it's completely silent for a minute (because it's different this time around) but then the camera pans around Jack and at that moment it switches back to the beginning (sept 22, 2004) with airplane sounds, screaming, etc. In the last season, I think they will show that that first scene is Jack's 2nd trip, only this time, when he gets to the beach, it will still be silent like before, only it will stay silent because it won't have a "flashback" to sept. 22nd and the scene will continue on. If that makes sense? I'm bad at explaining what I'm thinking sometimes lol...

amazingly i was able to follow that 1337. haha!

If that's true then all Jack does is the exact same thing that leads him to leave the Island.

(There's a much longer version of why I dislike this theory - but the above sentence pretty much does it for now.)

Somehow I think the island wont let Jack go. The island will need him to go back. I think the island needed Ben to get off.

I'm going to watch the pilot and look at it through the lense of the crash being a flashback, and him laying in the jungle as present, and see if it fits.

AngeloComet wrote:If that's true then all Jack does is the exact same thing that leads him to leave the Island.

(There's a much longer version of why I dislike this theory - but the above sentence pretty much does it for now.)

No, you're misunderstanding, but I can see why lol...

Once you hear the crash noises, that's a "flashback" to september 22nd 2004. The whole part from when he wakes up until he reaches the beach and it's silent is sometime, in like, 2007? Whatever is present time in the flash-forwards. But it turns into a flash-back once the camera pans around him. So, basically, the whole show so far has been a flashback in my theory (just at different stages, some further back, some closer), and we havn't seen what happens yet once he gets back to the island.

Hopefully that makes more sense? lol

And i think both Ben and Jack were in the same position when Ben woke up in the desert and Jack woke up in the jungle (I am too lazy to go back and look). Both were flat on their back with their arms extended, and both had a cut. Very interesting.

And didn't both let out a gasp when they awoke?

Yep! Good points Irocz

But why is he wearing the same suit and tie?

To make it not obvious? Haha, I dunno about that one

I see what you're saying Jacqui, but Jack's return emulating the same style that Ben had when he went to the desert would be a stylistic parallel and nothing more.

Unless you're suggesting that Jack teleported to the Island the very first time we saw him. (Please say you're not.)

And besides, Ben had a cloud of steamed breath and threw up not long afterwards.

AngeloComet wrote:I see what you're saying Jacqui, but Jack's return emulating the same style that Ben had when he went to the desert would be a stylistic parallel and nothing more.

It's that, (that's kind of just an interesting add-on) but it's also the fact that he's back on the island and we haven't seen yet what he does the second time around since the instant he gets to the quiet beach it "flashes back" to the first time he was on the island.

l337Jacqui wrote:

AngeloComet wrote:I see what you're saying Jacqui, but Jack's return emulating the same style that Ben had when he went to the desert would be a stylistic parallel and nothing more.

It's that, (that's kind of just an interesting add-on) but it's also the fact that he's back on the island and we haven't seen yet what he does the second time around since the instant he gets to the quiet beach it "flashes back" to the first time he was on the island.

The only thing that bothers me is the suit. If it is his second time on the island, why is he dressed exactly the same?
That is the only flaw I see.

MollyCocktail wrote:

l337Jacqui wrote:

AngeloComet wrote:I see what you're saying Jacqui, but Jack's return emulating the same style that Ben had when he went to the desert would be a stylistic parallel and nothing more.

It's that, (that's kind of just an interesting add-on) but it's also the fact that he's back on the island and we haven't seen yet what he does the second time around since the instant he gets to the quiet beach it "flashes back" to the first time he was on the island.

The only thing that bothers me is the suit. If it is his second time on the island, why is he dressed exactly the same?
That is the only flaw I see.

Jack may know exactly what will happen to him if he moves the island. Put the same suit on before you go? OR... Ben's clothing appeared as it did in the desert and because he moved to the future. Jack going back means everything goes back maybe? But then the cut?! hahaha! oh geez...

I can see why AC doesnt like this theory. It could just be a stylistic parallel - but why make the "falls" so similiar without some type significance?

Yeah, if my theory ends up being true, the only reason they have him wearing the same suit is that so it wasn't so obvious straight from the beginning. The believability that that would actually happen is very slim, and I agree

I have to agree with AC. Jack being on the island again is too "time-loopish" for me. He'd just repeat (or is that prepeat) his same arrogant behavior if he brought no knowledge of the past with him...what would be the point?

I'm not saying the show won't end the same way it began...I'm just saying...

nooooo....it's not a loop. I don't think some of you understand what I'm saying lol...It's hard to explain though.

I'll try to make it clearer lol...

The very first scene, is in 2007. Him running through the bamboo is 2007. I just noticed now that there is a "flashback whoosh sound" (the sound the show makes before all flashbacks are about to be seen) right before he breaks through to the beach. The camera cuts to Jack jumping through the brush to see the ocean. This is now September 22nd, 2004. SO! The whole show so far has been a flashback (in my theory, of course), and the very first scene with him getting up, and running through the woods is 2007 (or whenever he gets back to the island, I just say 2007 because that seems to be where we are based on Aaron's age off the island).

Is that better? lol...the only thing is that he's wearing the same exact clothes/hurt in the same way, so my theory is probably wrong haha...but, I just wanted to clear it up that I dont think it's a loop, I think it's the 2nd time on the island and we havn't seen what happens yet after he runs through the bamboo

So, you're saying the entirety of the show, up until now, has been one big Jack Flashback?

I really do buy it... even though I don't want to.

It feels very right, as a theory. But, it also seems worse than the idea that they're in hell.

So... I agree with you, as much as I really don't want to.

lol well thank you! And yes, I'm saying the entire show so far has been one giant flashback. Just some flashbacks are like super-flashbacks from a looong time ago (example: claire meeting the psychic) and some flashbacks are from not all that long ago (example: Jack yelling "we have to go back!") but everything is enclosed in a giant flashback timeline. and we have yet to see what happens. So really, there are no "flash-forwards" yet. we were just seeing flash forwards from the first time around the island. the "flash-forwards" are technically still a flashback. lol...wow okay hope that all made sense hahaha

It makes sence, and it's pretty sound.

I just don't like it.

It's liek the entire series was that one season of Dallas.

Yeah the only part that doesn't quite work is how he's in the same clothes, same injuries

and same little vodka bottle.

but anyways...

Since watching the finale, i have been thinking that maybe "all this has happened before". Not exactly Jack, Kate, and Sun etc. escaping the island. But maybe Widmore, Christian Shepherd and others escaping the island at some point and being forced to live the lie that they were ever on the island.

Jacqui could be right !

The same injuries, clothes and vodka bottle could be explained if it's a travel like Desmond did, that only took place in his brain.

But as Jacqui suggests, what we saw in the Pilot, at least the scenes on the beach, are not 2007, they have to be the original ones. Because if Jack goes back in time, then the rest of the Oceanic 6 must go with him.

And that would be the hard part, it would be a bit like Matrix, sending them all to the same date and place, in their brains...
Plus, what about Aaron, does he even have enough conscience to travel back to at that point ?